Stop Praying. Start Asking. | Christian Men Need to Man Up and Date

Couple Walking

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Michael is the writer of today’s post. I’m really proud of him for conveying such a tough message!

I was talking with a group of Christian men the other day and was given astonishing insight into the current dating scene. As I sat down with them to talk about life, I found something concerning: none of them were asking women out. Does anyone go on dates anymore? Some had text-based relationships, but most of them were fearful of “messing up” or “ending up with the wrong one”. This fear caused them to seldom date and keep female relationships plutonic and confusing. THIS IS NOT OK.

Ask any Christian woman over the age of 22 how she feels about Christian men’s dating game and she’ll most likely confirm what I’m witnessing.

Christian men don’t know how to ask a girl out. Maybe it’s because we all kissed dating goodbye?

Or maybe no one ever taught us how. I have no idea, but something needs to change. I’ve heard from Christian women that they either have said no to dating altogether (because the Christian guys don’t do any asking) or go on dates with men who aren’t Christians (because at least they are asking).

I get it. I, too, was more of a prayer than a dater, until I had a number of older men sit me down and tell me to stop being afraid and take a girl to coffee.

It’s not a marriage proposal. It’s just coffee.

In looking for “The One”, Christian men can easily get caught not asking women out AT ALL because she might not be “The One”. Really? Enough of this nonsense. Why aren’t you asking? What are you afraid of?  Why are you hiding behind prayers, vague intentions, group hangouts, and TEXT MESSAGES?

I’ve found myself wondering how do I encourage my brothers to GET OUT THERE and date. Real Christian men are needed to step up in this area. (Novel idea, I know.) The issue that many men run into, I know I did, is over spiritualizing the dating process. “What if I’m not going to marry her?” “What if I hurt her?” “What if I don’t like her after we date for a few weeks?”

Praying about your dating life is of course advised, but there is such a thing as too much praying. Are you using prayer as a cop out? Is your prayer life a cover-up for your fear? Don’t know if she’ll say yes? That’s part of being a man!

Men, listen up! Stop over praying and overanalyzing and start asking!

Stop the group hangouts and text messages with no clear direction.

If you are clearly leading her on step up and ask her out, or stop leading her on. Group hangouts are great, but find time for one on one where your intentions are clear.

Dating 101: Start by finding a girl who you think is interesting and attractive. Ask her out in person or over the phone (no texting). After you go out, call her again and ask her out again. Shocking! Then if you decide that it just isn’t there, be straightforward. Tell her kindly you won’t be calling anymore because you aren’t interested in a romantic relationship. It will sting a little for her, but it’s better than leading her on for months and her having 372 discussions with her friends.

Be a man and don’t hide behind vague intentions and confusing relationships.

And ladies, if you are confused about a man’s intentions—just ask him to clarify. It’s your responsibility not to let him lead you on. You heard me: your responsibility.

Men, imagine what it would be like if we started stepping up and took dating seriously?  If we didn’t over spiritualize it, but started taking girls out on dates and even sweeping them off their feet? You really don’t need to pray if she’s the one for you—you need to talk to her and ask her to go somewhere with you.

Stop praying, start asking.

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292 Responses to “Stop Praying. Start Asking. | Christian Men Need to Man Up and Date”
  1. Tatuu says:

    Yap! It’s about that time they started talking…! :)

  2. THANK YOU for giving ladies permission to ask a man’s intentions. Girls, it is ALWAYS okay for you to ask a guy what his intentions are for your relationship!

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Yes, it’s so important for women to feel empowered to ask questions and not just let men string us along.

      • Bubba says:

        Everyone has there own personal experience with dating. What I have discovered is that some will succeed and some will fail. This “man up” idea has been preached at me over and over again. Down here, I have observed and been a part of the church/dating scene (I don’t know what else to call it) The men, including myself, have always “Manned Up”. The result: You get to go out on that first date where the woman tells you, before you get to dinner, that she does not want to date you. Or you get that cancelled date where the woman forgets to tell you that she is still married until right before the date. I have also had the idea of not dating someone you wouldn’t marry preached at me. This idea has been so twisted in the church. “You betta not been a sinner before if you gonna date me!” Ultimately, this means that attractive people are MORE LIKELY to succeed in dating than unattractive people. I think everyone wants to tap dance around that fact, but what do you say to that guy who has “Manned Up” (with good intentions) and been deemed a “Creeper”?

    • Cassie Scott says:

      I’ve tried asking a guy what his intentions were, and he said he was unsure because he hadn’t heard from God what to do. It seems like fear to me. I told him that, he said, “that’s a good though.” and that was it.

  3. Lerato says:

    Hi Deans!

    Thank you for the post, funny enough I have started writing an article on what it means to Man Up and Woman up, this was a bit helpful. However I don’t agree with some things.

    “Tell her kindly you won’t be calling anymore because you aren’t interested in a romantic relationship. It will sting a little for her, but it’s better than leading her on for months and her having 372 discussions with her friends”

    I would really rather not get hurt and ask myself what I did wrong or if I’m not good enough for him, or enforce a perception that my brothers are not trustworthy (toy with your heart and bounce). I prefer to be guarded as much as I will guard him. The brother can ask for one on one time (informally, should not pour his heart out and overwhelm me). Get to know me and build a friendship and that way when/if he develops feelings (break ups are not nice and sometimes get messy and hurt one’s perspective), he has my character and personality in mind… Leading me on is just down right evil.

    I am also guilty of over analysing things because I am afraid of being hurt, and I don’t want to lock my heart up until it’s calloused with all kinds of rock and bitter-mould on it. So, I need whoever is going to be my boyfriend-turned-husband, to be a friend and to keep praying for me (as I am for him), and never make light of it. Also, I need a man who is going to step up and actually ask me out than one who paves his way to singleness with text messages and empty pursuits which get me confused and having to ask what exactly is going on between us… Men, trust me when I say this… It’s exhausting and it’s not a role I ought to be playing. Be authentic and try, just don’t be reckless (that’s not sexy, it’s immature).

    • Beth Ann says:

      This was an interesting article. I liked reading your thoughts though Lerato -and I agree with you. “Get to know me and build a friendship and that way when/if he develops feelings.. he has my character and personality in mind… “

      • dave says:

        Ms. Beth Ann – Not that I EVER understood this awful game, but are you not describing the dreaded “friend zone” for guys who “try to build a friendship”?

    • Tolita says:

      Amen, Lerato! I found your advice more sagacious than that of the article. I understand why we shouldn’t ‘over-spiritualise” but at the same time I think the dating culture is what causes so many problems. We can’t deny the fact that it is an emotional investment and one that isn’t worth making on a whim. It’s all very well to say ‘let them down gently once you know they aren’t right’ but I’d rather not have been put in that position in the first place. A defined friendship is a much safer foundation than ‘sample dating’ as the article suggest. I as a woman do not date. There are others like me. Before I put myself in that position, yes I will pray and expect God’s spirit to lead me so I don’t emotionally invest in the wrong relationship, no matter how brief it is. Some of us are more damaged by these things than others not to mention the spiritual distraction it could become. Dating and marriage are important but not the be all and end all. Let’s stop being defined by these things, live our lives, fulfil our purpose and change the world for God’s glory. I believe marriage should find you according to God’s season-especially women-rather than us constantly pining after it. Apart from anything it distorts your motives for getting married in the first place.

      In some ways I think the dating culture encouraged in the article is as disingenuous as those men who make vague emotional promises but nothing concrete. It still allows you to ”play the field’ to an extent, keeping your options open. God knows from the outset who is compatible for you. There’s nothing wrong with being patient and waiting for His leading and THEN ‘man up’ and ask her out. As a female I would encourage that above anything else.

      Shalom, Miss T

    • Thando says:

      Eish im in that situation of seeking a truly christian girl,but im afraid to aproach the girl due to disapointment,thats why i prefer to connect things wth god before i aproach the girl

  4. Meg Murray says:

    Oh Heavens, this needed to be written! AMEN!

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      HAHA. What’s your experience? DO SHARE!

      • sasha Hicks says:

        I kind of was hanging out with a male friend after church in the car park for over an hour for a whole year and over.
        He would give off these confusing vibes.

        He told me once that it was deceptive to look for women at church.
        As far as I know He is single and very prayerful and way beyond the marriageable age.
        I just decided this gentleman was just not in this world told him in a round about way and went my way.
        His excuse? He was laid back. I thought you could be laid back and still show you are interested.

        Being single and in church is tough!
        You either get these old men who are in their twilight years seeking women 20 years their junior or nothing. Something must give, I wonder what God would say when we meet.

  5. Bruce Welton says:

    Great post. Let’s hear it for clear communications, clear intentions, and clear decision-making. Sometimes it is so easy to spiritualize the things we would rather avoid facing in our daily lives. I am a big fan of Harris and his book, but I think it also takes courage to listen to your heart and to take out after the things in life it points you towards, be that a certain career, ministry, or mate. Spiritual living encompasses action as well as supplication. As I heard it said years ago, “It’s hard to steer a parked car.”

  6. Caitlin says:

    I love this. So much.

    When someone asks you to a coffee/dinner/movie date and you are confused about intentions, it’s really easy to ask playfully, “So…like a date?”

    It answers the question for me. :)

  7. lerato says:

    Thank you Beth. i think sometimes we all forget that we are all human, a heart is a very delicate thing and should be guarded (well of life). But we can’t recklessly led by our hearts because its deceitaboveelse.Friendship guards all parties.

  8. Maggie says:

    Last night my youth group here at school was talking about dating and answering the typical questions. But one thing that was said that really did stand out to me (even though I do have a boyfriend) is what he called covenant friendships. That you sacrifice your time to be friends and be friendly to people, men and women, and having these friendships will better determine in what direction feelings are headed. And if the man and woman decided they wanted to see each other more that it continues as a friendship rather than starting a mini marriage, where it is everything in a marriage without the vows and true lifelong commitment.

  9. Michael says:

    Thanks for all the comments, keep them coming! Men are definitely up to the task of asking girls out. I challenge guys all the time to take that step.

  10. Scotty says:

    I have definitely had more girl friends hurt by guys leading them on without asking them out, than girl friends hurt by it not working out after 2-3 dates.

    Just a hint for those nice guys out there who really are stalling for the right reasons!

  11. A Dude says:

    I have noticed this phenomenon at church and actually the hot girls are getting asked out ALL THE TIME. Too much. It’s the same girl getting asked out by every single guy at church and she politely declines.

    So I don’t think it’s an issue of dudes needing to “man up” but rather dudes looking past initial hotness.

  12. Katrina says:

    Thank you for writing this. I am 26 and still single. It seems that there are more and more men who would rather be pursued by women or not take the initiative to move a relationship forward toward marriage. It makes me really sad but I just keep praying for the men in my life and for my future husband to be the leaders and initiators that God created them to be.

  13. Peter says:

    Well stated!
    There is a taboo against dating out there and that needs to change.
    My one question of challenge to women would be to hold men to that standard.
    The article “Don’t text back” speaks into this a bit.
    Also, I think, women should consider why men have issues with this area and I would argue that many men are afraid to ask the girl out not because they lack the guys but because they honestly don’t want to hurt the women.
    So the mindset needs to change about dating being a slow process, a discernment, to decide if the other person could be a good lifelong partner. Too many women marry themselves emotionally to the man on the first date.
    A slow, more frequent, relaxed approach would allow the men to be men.
    And things like a profile picture together and a public relationship only speedup the process and cloud your ability to think about it.
    The men are there and they will grow, but wait and keep your standards high for how they should treat you.

    • Peter says:

      Sorry for the grammer…

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Thanks for commenting, Peter! It’s always nice to hear from the men. Agreed that women are excusing the ‘non-dating’ men by putting up with it. I agree with you that women need to be more relaxed and not have their expectations too high at the beginning.

      • Mickey says:

        Are you kidding? Most women today have an attitude that they are too good for any man, and that men bring nothing to the table in any dating relationship. Since women are firmly convinced that men are generally worthless, dating has deteriorated into two canps: THEM AND US!!!

      • Mickey says:

        Sorry Ruthie, but I just cannot buy into any of this. Why? Because the pervasive man-hating mentality out there has made meeting women an exercise in guaranteed failure. With that in mind, can you please tell me how guys like me are supposed to continue having faith in this? Is that too much to ask?

        • Dillon says:

          I’m late on the game here but yeah I’m with you Mickey. Notice how the language always involves how “men” need to change, do something different. “Man up”?, this ain’t the 1950’s. Go back to the kitchen.

          The ladies think we are giving of confusing vibes and being passive. What they fail to realize and/or acknowledge is that men have taken the red pill and have said bye bye to dating and marriage. Marriage to a western female is a poor investment. With a divorce rate greater than 50% and 79% of divorces initiated by women, forget that. Add in alimony, no fault divorce, child custody, etc ,etc. Bad deal for men in this current climate. This is all due to the effects of feminism and unrestrained hypergamy, which have also infiltrated the churches.

  14. Anonymous says:

    I think you give men more credit than we’re due! although I can’t speak for all men I do know many who share my feeling. We aren’t exactly praying over acting, we are just waiting for the appropriate time to act. The male libido doesn’t pump quite as much “goofy juice” into us as it does females, and therefore it makes us more capable to take a step back and think (although I realize there are those who are incapable of just that). Anyway, Catholics, or I guess this is Christians in general, but either way, dating should be about finding a wife to spend the rest of your life with, not about being able to say you are dating. And men may have things they want to take care of before they settle down, and don’t want to drag a girl into that mess. So prayer although it is important has much less to do with it than you make it seem.

    • You, anonymous, have said very misogynist things and come across as an ignorant and juvenile human being. How do you expect to be in a serious relationship? How would you feel if someone told your Mom or female relatives to “go back to the kitchen”? And at least be man enough to leave your name!

  15. Anonymous says:

    I am a 38 years old and I quit asking Christian women out thirteen years ago. I am a permanent single. The reason I started chasing the single life is simple. Christian women won’t throw away their lists of “Things I have to have in a guy”. Most of the items on these lists are horribly shallow and superficial. As Christians we are told to imitate Christ. Well, when God chose to love us did he break out a list of “qualities” He was looking for? Nope. He chose to love us UNCONDITIONALLY. Also, the mere fact that these women have lists shows how selfish they are. It shows that they are more concerned about their own needs being met than the person they’re interested in. Selfishness never makes a marriage flourish. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

    • Tolita says:

      Goodness there’s a lot of sexism on this thread. There’s nothing wrong with women having standards, whether it’s in the form of a list or whatever as long as she’s willing to be flexible when necessary. It’s not selfish, it’s called self-respect and knowing what you want. I never even wanted to make a list but felt God strongly moving me in that direction a while back. So don’t be disparaging about the idea until you are fully aware of the individual’s circumstances.

      It’s not every man who is right for you and as a woman you’re not under obligation to take the first thing that comes along as if you should just be grateful to have a man in your life. Marriage is a lovely idea but it’s not essential. There are worse things than being single. I think the sort of men who object to this so strongly are those who haven’t even tried to be eligible-and by that I don’t mean financial status. I’m talking about character. A decent man wouldn’t be threatened by a woman who has standards. Unfortunately too many women lower their standards for fear of being alone.

      I’m sorry to say but your response says more about why you are single than women making lists.

      Shalom x

      • Mickey says:

        Sexism??? I couldn’t disagree more. This has nothing to do with having standards. There are too many women out there who believe NO man can ever be good enough for them, thus the very wide chasm between the sexes.

        That said, can you (or anyone else here) please tell me where I find God’s design in all this politically correct misandry?

        • Tolita says:

          It’s not misandry if the list is realistic and has a degree of flexibility. I’m sure there are those that are not very realistic. Still I’ve heard testimonies of God even answering those.

          I don’t believe because a few women didn’t find you to be the right one it means that NO man is good enough for them. Again I re-iterate, don’t resent women for having certain standards. Too many don’t have enough! It might be time to start listening to what they value in a man. I’m sure there men out there who meet some if not most of the criteria and they probably don’t object to ‘lists per se’. You yourself probably have preferences even if you have not immortalised them in text.

          Shalom x

          • Mickey says:

            If you do a Google search for “men are dogs” or “men suck”, for example, you will see too many examples of women who vilify men for past hurts, for sport, or “just because…”

            That kind of torpedoes the idea of having “standards”. “Standards” are just one more convenient excuse for women to cut guys off at the knees just for the fun of it.

      • Anonymous says:

        Lists are not standards. Standards sound like this;

        I want a guy who will lead his family,
        I want a guy who will provide for his family,
        I want a guy who is slow to anger etc…

        These have value to God and he expects these things from men.

        Lists, on the other hand, sound like this;

        I will love a guy IF he is six foot six,
        I will love a guy IF he has washboard abs,
        I will love a guy IF he makes six figures a year etc…

        Lists stem from a very selfish, self-centered place in a person’s heart. When was the last time God said to you I will love you IF…? Never. He loves you unconditionally. Thats why He sent His Son to die a horrific death. Jesus took your place and provided you with an abundant life. Thats unconditional love! How dare Christian women make a list and practice CONDITIONAL love when they have been given so much. Conditional love TAKES from a relationship because it is selfish by nature. Unconditional love GIVES to a relationship because its primary concern is for the other person’s edification. Remember this, taking destroys and giving builds. That was my point.

        • Bubba says:

          I heard one girl at church say, “I wish I could date a UFC fighter” Yes she was serious.

          • Ryan says:

            There’s is something to that. UFC fighters are fit, confident, strong will to handle a challenge head on. I don’t see any reason why a woman should not be attracted to a godly UFC fighter. They already have at least a firm base line of what is required of a godly man.

          • Bubba says:

            She didn’t specify a godly ufc fighter.

          • Bubba says:

            Look out Scott Ferrozzo…. them Christian women are going to be knockin down your door.

          • Bubba says:

            What would you say about a heavy set preacher or missionary?

          • Bubba says:

            Dawg!! I can’t help it. So you are honestly telling me that a true Christian women, in a singles group, is justified in having this attitude. Your telling me that A true Christian woman can complain about not finding the right man, in her case a UFC fighter, when she is surrounded by a group of men, and women, who are sincerely working to spread the news of Jesus Christ. I have to admit your line of reasoning seems to be prevalent in churches today. Thats what I am trying to say. There is an expectation for a Godly man to be more than just serving the lord. Well, I want to date a bikini model. lol!!!

  16. Mickey says:

    I couldn’t disagree more. Gender relations have deteriorated to the point that male bashing has replaced baseball as the national pastime. I really and truly believe that the majority of women are hard wired to dislike, distrust and devalue men. This whole debate about “niceness” is just one more smokescreen, and in this man-hating day and age, it’s just one more reason for women to cut guys down at the knees, “just because.”

    Women will find fault with guys for any of the following reasons, at the minimum:
    1) Men try to be decent and respectful, but that’s not good enough.
    2) If men try to be the so-called “alpha-male”, he’s written off as overly cocky/insincere.
    3) A man can’t read a woman’s mind and she gets mad.
    4) Women are convinced that men bring nothing to the table.
    5) The “all men are dogs” mentality.
    6) Women carry themselves as “unapproachable” all the time.
    7) If a guy disagrees with a woman for ANY reason, he’s automatically a jerk for it.

    Guess what? It sure is hell hard for women to find a good man when all they do is run guys off at every opportunity.
    Thus, the next time any woman starts whining that she can’t find a good man, I suggest that she LOOK UNDER HER SHOES!!! I’ll bet my last dollar that since she probably stepped on so many guys, that’s the most logical place to look!!!

  17. J-Dog says:

    I put myself out there and asked out a lot of girls at the Christian college I went to. I usually seemed to wind up in the “friend zone. After college I have tried online dating for a long time, because I had trouble meeting Christian girls out in the real world. I have had a lot of bad experiences that have left me feeling hurt, angry, and really unsure of myself. I have tried really hard and just have been emotionally damaged by all my failures. I think sometimes you just gotta stop trying and wait for God’s timing. Also, I’m frustrated that everything seems to fall on the guys shoulders when it comes to dating. A guy is expected to keep the conversation going, always pay for everything, always be on time, be funny, be confident yet not cocky, and the list keeps going on. I have had dates show up late as well as not ask me any questions or advance the conversation. What about the girl’s responsibilities? Sorry about the long rant. =)

    • Mickey says:


      You are not wrong. Gender relations today have completely disintegrated the idea that men and women are supposed to be helpmeets to each other.

    • Ryan says:

      The weight should be on the man’s shoulders. He should be the one doing the heavy lifting. You sound lazy when you complain about not wanting to do something that is part of your role as a man.

      • Mickey says:

        You couldn’t be more wrong! When the hostile sisterhood doesn’t appreciate ANYTHING about how decent a guy at least tries to be, then, sir, it is just an exercise in futility.

  18. steph says:

    I’ve been wondering: should one be patient or pro-active in these circumstances?

  19. Mike C says:

    How many churches today teach young women to
    1) Be obedient to their husbands?
    2) Be homemakers?
    3) Be sexually available for their husbands?
    4) Remain faithful until death to their marriage vows?
    5) Take care of their own children?
    If a woman is of even average looks but actually takes care of herself physically (bmi under 20) and is committed to all of these things AND maintains her sexual purity then she will have no shortage of Christian men who want to marry her.
    The problem is that the church is full of women who have been taught that
    1) Obedience is abuse
    2) Homemakers are failures
    3) Sex is a weapon to use against your husband
    4) Fidelity is until you find someone better
    5) Daycare is where your children go so you can keep your career.

    “I really and truly believe that the majority of women are hard wired to dislike, distrust and devalue men.”


    No idea who has been writing all these “Men need to man up and ask women out at church dating articles” I have been in my church for two years and witness nothing but shallowness from women.

    The guys who are dating have completed college or working full time. We just had graduation and notice some guys who graduated have women in their arms from out of no-where, and they dont go to our church. Women spring from the wood work when a man lands a job or college is completed. Feminism has taken over in the church. We have plenty of young men who are 21-35 who are looking for women who love the Lord, but their standards are too high for us. I am 23, I do not want a 18-20 year old because they are too immature, and the 21-22’s are off in another state for college, while the 23-25+ don’t date men my age, they know they can land a 25-30 year old with a job.

    Do you really want to be married to someone who is only loyal to you because of the fear of hell?

    If you get married don’t you want to be with someone who is with you because they love you and enjoy your company. Do you really want to be married to someone who is only loyal to you because of the fear of hell?
    Someone who has sex with you because they want to not because the Lord expects them to do this. ?

    This is the problem with church women. Some of my friends have started to wander off to clubs to meet women now.
    Its a sassage fest now, we have sexual jokes between the guys and its sickining, we want women not a sassage fest!

    • Cata says:

      Dear friend,
      I started reading your posts, and your thoughts caught my attention. Especially, this:
      “How many churches today teach young women to 1) Be obedient to their husbands? 2) Be homemakers? 3) Be sexually available for their husbands? 4) Remain faithful until death to their marriage vows? 5) Take care of their own children? If a woman is of even average looks but actually takes care of herself physically (bmi under 20) and is committed to all of these things AND maintains her sexual purity then she will have no shortage of Christian men who want to marry her.”
      Believe me!! I am thankful you brought up this points, because it is truth, we women need to learn to live up to The Scriptures and respect and encourage our husbands, and take care of our children in love. But, you lost me when you mentioned the looks that a woman should have, plus all the other things in your list, so that plenty “Christian” man would want to ask her out!!! BMI under 20!!!!!! Come on!! Do you know that a healthy BMI ranges from 18.5 and 24? So, all women out there that are trying to be healthy and for genetics could never achieve to have a BMI under 20 are just not pretty enough, even when average looking, and are having problems to be ask out by “Christian ” men just because of looks! This is part of the problem!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, women may have some unrealistic shallow lists requests, nonetheless, many Godly man, are chained to the idea that a woman has to look certain way (:average looking”) and be skinny (“BMI under 20″) for them to even ask her out. That is a shorter shallow list it-self, Don’t you think?
      I am 23, and a male from my church, 32 years old, has been asking me to go with him in group dates for over a year. He makes indirect comments about how pretty I look and talk vaguely about marriage in this group dates. It is starting to get uncomfortable. I am not gonna lie, I was interested on this man, he loves the Lord and we have some interesting conversations.
      But this has changed due to his lack of intentionallity. He asked me out for Valentien’s. He, two of his male friends, and I went out for dinner. There were no other girls with us, he insisted on paying for my dinner, but yet, he has not led me know verbally his intentions. I do not know were he stands. Now, could you explain to me how patient could a girl be? I mean one year of talking to me and asking me out in group dates and not once this 32 year old man has made his intentions clear to me. Everytime we hang out with friends he has come and ask me to go with them. This has led me to the point that even when i was interested on this man before, I am not even interested on him anymore. I have made my mind of not going out on group dates anymore because it is emotionally confusing. Dueto all the attention but not definition on where we stand. So, believe me!!! This article speaks some truth! Man and women should be able to hang out and develop friendships. That is awesome! But, Man, if you are interested on a girl and you keep texting and asking her on group dates, there is a point where you need to take the lead and led her know your intentions, you may find that she shares the same feelings!! Do not wait until the girl is just tired of feeling confused and sends you to the “Friend Zone”; or even worst she decides to stop hanging out and getting to know you and accepting your group dates invitations and answering your texts. She may start accepting other guys invitations in hopes to find someone that would actually speak his intentions and lead her without confusion and playfulness!

      Points to take:
      1. Godly man should know Beauty is deceitful. Ask out some of those girls that are above the 20 BMI. Reconsider your beauty must haves in your list!
      2. We, women, need to grow closer to God and learn to be submissive and respectful to our husbands; just as we learn to also surrender to God.
      3. Men and Women need to grow in the Word and look at relationships and marriage through the Word not through world’s standards (Even in the “Christian Culture” there are some worldly standards that d not follow the Word).
      4. Men please speak your intentions to the lady you like to get to know more. Pray and be intentional in your actions, don’t walk around the point (It is not attractive and does not follows the way God leads the Church). God has sent his Son to die for us, God has said:” I love you first”, He has sacrificed everything through Jesus to get us (His bride, the church back). Then, if the Bible says: “Husbands love your wives like I have love the church.” It makes sense that a man would be intentional and straightforward in expressing his intentions to the lady he is pursuing. A man should go to the point just as God has done for us through Christ! Yes it means to be vulnerable. I feel ya! It is not nice to be vulnerable and I pray the Lord will give men strength to do this. But, I promise, it is not pretty for your fellow sisters in Christ to sit on uncertainty either!

      I hope you find a Godly woman and have a blessed marriage!

    • Bee says:

      For the record: BMI is proven to be an inaccurate measure of health. It doesn’t take into account muscle mass or bone density, and yes, someone can have heavier bone density and large muscle tone, adding to a bigger BMI. Aside from that being one of the most shallow perspectives on what to look for I’ve ever heard in my life.

  20. Mike C says:

    Part II

    I have women say to my face that “men are nothing without money” and would not date.
    Men stop falling for their games, go work out get bigger and save every penny you earn for when you turn 30 or older and they stamp their feet for “where is mr right?” you can pass them up just like they passed you up five to ten years back. Men don’t want a 30 year old woman, they want young and fertile for breading, it’s in the Bible don’t be fooled. 18 is the legal age, if you are 30 or 40 year old man with a few hundread thousand dollars the women in the church all jump on you. It is sad but so true. There is plenty of young men 25-30 in my church and even leaders of life groups who can’t land an average or below average girl at church, they have better chances with someone from the grocery store or club. Everyone at church has become “friendly” and can’t seperate that fact that we are still sexually attracted to people just like non-christians. There is this stigma going around that if you are “attracted” to a woman and tell her then you are a sinner and she doesn’t want you.

    I asked this one girl out three times in the 8 months I still know her, never wanted to go out with me, I told her straight up I wanted to go out with her. The only time she came along with me was at a group event which doesn’t count because we never talked about dating. But she got a boyfriend a month back, has a job, go figure.

    FYI, I am full time college student.

    If a woman doesn’t want you now, why would she want me when I graduate? because I have a job and “money”? surprize.

    My church has a core group of 12 or more women 24-30 mainly 26-30 very God loving, christians. Never want to go out with any of the guys that are there in the church. To boot, these women are above average, no lack of desire from the males. The problem is they bond together in a core and shun the men out.

    • Veronica says:

      Wow. Your writing is some of the most jaded I have ever read. Guess what? For (most) women it’s not about the money. It’s about security. Women like to feel secure. Money is a means to this. Would I rather date someone who has a steady job, a car, a retirement plan, or a guy with no job, no car, and no ambitions? I’m sorry that a couple of girls haven’t wanted to go out with you, but with your attitude it’s no wonder. Maybe you should stop complaining that women are the problem and take a good, hard look at yourself. Pointing fingers never gets anyone anywhere.

      • Mickey says:

        Let’s reverse the situation. How would you feel as a woman if you were confronted all the time with a mentality that men believe women bring nothing to the table in a relationship? If you weren’t jaded something is very wrong.

      • Anon says:

        Men like to feel secure as well. I have no problems if the female is the sole provider, even if that statement is not necessarily biblically based.

    • Ryan says:

      When women come up to me and say things like “Men are nothing without money”, “I don’t want to date someone who won’t sleep with me until marriage”, “Take me home with you tonight”, or “Its okay, I want my husband to leave me anyway” I am grateful. They just made my job of figure out if they are worth getting to know a lot easier.

  21. Mike C says:

    Part III

    The other part of the whole thing is the lack of slender women. Most women are a little chubby or ghostly white. They put hardly any effort into looking good, I heard once Joyce Meyer said you should look your best.

    Have you ever been to the pool, the beach, anywhere outdoors where there are lots of females who are tanned and not ghostly like most church women? Women believe men will accept them for who they are (fat, ghostly) and marry them. Women can gain a few beauty points just by getting a tan and looking healthy. I never met a christian woman who takes good care of herself by going to the gym. The most cutest girls I see are at the gym, fit or toned the way I like. How come christian women can’t hit the gym and look good? Step it up ladies look good for the guys. Oh I forgot, “1) Obedience is abuse”

    Guys, when is the last time you seen a christian lady who is toned/fit nice tan looks great at church? probably not right? maybe at a mega church but even then? I seen some slender ones but not “fit or toned”. Very rare to find these women in church.

  22. Mike C says:

    I forgot to add in all of this, one time I asked this woman out she said I came on too strong. I had talked to her a few times at church (rarely see her now) and texted her for two or three weeks getting to know her, then she said I came on too strong for asking her out to get to know her better.

    (V)TF ?

    MGTOW get a good job, work out, look good. I never get female attention from women at church, I went to a bar once and got female attention, very sad when I am trying find a christian female and can’t get attention from them.

    • Michael says:

      Brother, please get a clue and take your comments somewhere else. What you are saying is utterly ridiculous. This post will still be here when you are ready for a change.


      • Mickey says:

        Why is that ridiculous?

      • Paul M says:

        I concur with Mike C.

        All you are doing is shaming men, and putting up women to be all pure and holy.

        You need to get a grip on reality.

        Oh, you probably are not allowed to say anything that might get the princesses upset – otherwise you won’t get your money into your church.


    • Special K says:

      A lot of Christian singles groups are like meat markets anyways. Might as well go to a bar. Better yet, stay single and enjoy life.

  23. Mickey says:

    Ms. Dean:

    When you consider that women today believe that men bring NOTHING to the table when it comes to dating, and are pre-conditioned to believe the worst of men, the idea to “man up” isn’t really an option. What you might see as under-confidence, I see as merely being realistic about the true fact that meeting women is an exercise in guaranteed failure.

    Sorry, but I have a hard time having “faith” in any of this.

  24. Mickey says:

    The one thing most guys don’t have when it comes to meeting women IS A PRAYER!!! What an absolute travesty!!!

    • Facing Facts says:

      Isaiah 3:16 daughters of zion (christian/religious women) are haughty. This is it this is this time now. Get ready.

  25. Santha says:

    Thank you for the article; it’s interesting. What I find more interesting, though, are the undercurrents of emotion in the comments (which I’m glad I read-very helpful). Mickey, you seem so bitter. I am 40, unmarried, and struggle viciously with bitterness myself. I notice you commented that men and women are supposed to be helpmeets to each other, but really, women are supposed to be helpmeets to men. (Mike’s definition of that is somewhat skewed, I think–I’m very fair, excuse me…ghostly — he’d have me covered in skin cancer in a couple of months!)
    As a Christian high school teacher in a public school system, I have the privilege of fighting these stupid feminist notions that girls have. I try to model for them that it’s okay for guys to be stronger, God made them that way, and no one belittles anyone. I didn’t live all this out years ago when I was married…maybe I’ll always be single. It’s a bitter pill to swallow when all my “church” friends are married. But we’re not supposed to be looking around us, right? I just try to keep my eyes on Him. I wish I were more joyful, though.
    Not sure I added to the discussion, just trying to say that I have no idea what men think of me, but I certainly don’t think badly of them :). I suppose it might be the age, and the busy-ness.
    As a P.S., not all women want careers. I have two boys, and I would truly love to homeschool. But I thank God for my career so I can support us.
    God Bless, praying for us :)

    • Mickey says:


      There are too many women who believe that men are no good, and would dive into a pool of acid before believing anything positive about any guy,,,yet I’m bitter for calling it out.

      Sometimes one person’s realism is another person’s bitterness. Oh well…

    • Ryan says:

      Some of us prefer fair skin sister.

  26. Ambr says:

    My friends and I are all actually moving towards courting. We are called to live a life set apart! Having “intentional friendships” before courting is much more Godly, safe, and harmless than dating! :)

  27. Michael says:

    Just having finished my freshman year of college, I know that I have definitely struggled with this same issue. I’m the kind of guy who has been in two relationships since the middle of high school and after they ended (both pretty badly), I barely talk to those girls so the last thing I want to do is screw up a good friendship. Also, most of the older guys in my Christian fellowship at college say that you should only date if you see a possibility of it ending up in marriage. What is being said here seems to be the opposite. With so much conflicting advice, I really don’t know what to do?

    • Michael says:

      Hey Michael! I love your honesty, thanks so much for your questions. Dating is definitely not just for recreation, the sport of it as many guys look at it. I agree that dating is supposed to lead towards marriage, however how will you know if she is “marriage material” unless you take her out? What I am condoning is getting out of our comfort zones and treating women with the upmost respect and stop over spiritualizing the dating process.

      Growing up I heard all to often guys overspiritualizing the dating process, “God told me to ask her out”, “God told me to break up with her”. This keeps us from realizing the God given emotions that he uses to help us make those decisions.

      Here are a couple of good resources from

      I love your honesty Michael and I dont have everything figured out, but would love to keep the conversation going. Please shoot me additional questions.


  28. Hendrick Mansfield says:

    Shaming men to ‘be a real man’ and ‘man up’ has failed and will continue to fail until the societal and legal constructs are removed that have killed male authority and bastardized everything about what being a man has ever meant. As it stands, men have absolutely nothing to gain – and everything to lose – by dating and/or getting married.

    • Ryan says:

      Sounds like you need to man up buddy. Not all of us use society as an excuse to not fulfill our god given responsibility. Daniel didn’t stop praying because society threatened to throw him in the lions den for it. He manned up and took it like a champ.

    • Hope says:

      WOW! Hendrick, what a conclusion to come to. Gods word says that a man that findeth a wife findeth a good thing and obtaineth FAVOR….thats not losing at all, Love. maybe youve been hurt so many times that you yourself feel like you do no more than lose when it comes to relationships. I have felt the same way in my own life but I dont think that I lose if I were to ever find the love that God sets aside for me…(if that is in His plan for my life)

  29. Mickey says:

    It’s hard to be confident when rejection is a GIVEN, isn’t it?

  30. Mickey says:

    The problem, as I see it, is that women claim to want a nice guy only to run off with the “players” of the world.

    For example, a woman has a typical choice between guy #1, who’s gainfully employed, educated, steady, self-supporting, but, in her mind, just a “regular” guy who doesn’t get her engines running; and guy #2, who gets her engines running…BUT…has a history of stringing women along, maybe has 2 or 3 kids from different women, and is probably the stereotypical “jerk” women claim to hate but can’t stay away from.

    How does the story end, you ask? Too many times, the woman will run off after guy #2, who likely turns out to be a womanizer, an abuser, a drug dealing thug, and so on. Then, bad boy #2 moves on to the next conquest, leaving the woman with a broken heart, a kid or two, and who knows what other baggage.

    Then, after all that, then the woman decides that she wants to give a chance to steady guy #1 after she’s already given him the gate. By then, there aren’t too many guys in steady guy #1′s position who would give the woman a chance to blow him off a second time. The woman then finds out too late that the guy she blew off as “nice” is the same guy who has his own opinions, knows how to treat a woman, and can stand up for himself when he needs to.

    So ladies, enjoy the sexual tension and resulting drama with your exciting, thuggish, “bad boys”, and see where it gets you. Just don’t expect any sympathy from this corner when it all comes crashing down.

    Since a lifetime of being taught to treat women with courtesy and respect turned out to
    be a spectacular failure, this is what I’ll do before I try to pursue the allegedly “fair sex”:

    1) I’ll quit my law teaching job;
    2) I’ll start drinking;
    3) I’ll join a motorcycle gang;
    4) I’ll become an international gun runner, and…
    5) I’ll start smoking weed.

    Then the babes will be mine for the taking. Goodbye niceness…hello thuggery!!!

    • Michael says:

      If you want to continue this conversation offline, please shoot an email to the “ask Ruthie” section and I would be glad to call you. For now, please leave your comments elsewhere.


    • Special K says:

      Gotta be honest Mickey, that pretty much sums up what I’ve seen. They would rather choose a hells angel biker. But who cares? I live my life now doing what I enjoy. My days of bending over backwards for the fleeting desires of women are long over, and haven’t looked back since. And actually enjoying life now.

    • Ryan says:

      Sounds like the lesson learned should be to respect her, be faithful, and find out how to get her engine going.

      • Mickey says:

        And when you do all that, only to see her run off with the drug dealer/Hell’s Angel’s biker/international gun runner/corporate player…THEN WHAT???

  31. Dubbyaeyedoublel says:

    Totally agree with you on this, but here’s a nice counterpoint to this idea:

    • somebody says:

      So by that counter point i should never be friends with a girl if i just want to get to know and date her. that’s the point of the date is to get to know each other. and friendships like that, where your are being their friend to get close and after your not afraid of them anymore you ask them out. is deceptive, cowardly, and won’t get you anywhere.

  32. Doug says:

    Oh how weary I am becoming of all these men-bashing, “man up and date” articles from American Christian bloggers. They are a dime a dozen these days. And they are all BS, plain and simple. Most church women are spoiled, over-indulged, self-perceived princesses who are on the hunt for two things: money, status, and the opportunity to have the wedding of their dreams that they can post endlessly about on Facebook. And many guys are simply not interested in these types of girls, otherwise they would ask them out, right? Either that or these guys are more in need of male companionship and love, you know, the kind Christian girls get to have all the time with their girlfriends but that Christian guys are steered away from. It is a ridiculous double standard in American churches, and I’m so glad I got out of them for this reason, among many others. And I know I’m not alone. Men are leaving American church in droves, and it is because of attitudes like the one that prevails in this article — men aren’t doing this, they should be doing that, etc. Why don’t you come alongside men and actually love, teach, and encourage them rather than lambast them for not meeting your own expectations about how they should approach and date women — these are your standards, by the way, not God’s. One day it will be only women left in the churches they’ve basically hijacked, and then they will have nobody left to complain to except each other. Good luck with that. Men are learning the scam that is American church, and American church dating, and they are fleeing in droves. I, for one, am happy to see it, and I’m happy I got away from it years ago. It is pure insanity, it isn’t Biblical at all, and it makes you all look like complete nut cases. Good riddance American church.

    • Guy says:

      You’ve been told that there isn’t supposed to be any male bonding time? From who? There are HUGE standards on Christian men EVERYWHERE in America? News to me. I’m really sorry that you had a bad experience with your particular church or churches, but please PLEASE don’t shame the name of churches everywhere because of it. I am a Christian male of 23 years. I attend church regularly. I have a few close guy friends who are also Christian, and we are able to live and process through life together. It’s awesome. I love it. No pastor in my church has ever told me I should be doing something different.

      I would encourage you to consider searching. Just because a church (or churches) went down the wrong path and puts false standards on men does not mean all churches do that.

  33. Jimboa says:

    I have known several Christians, ministers, in particular, who discourage Christian men from dating, saying, “God will send you the right woman, when it is time.” What if that woman he is sending is right there?

    This is merely making excuses for failing to act.

  34. Will says:

    I am 37, still unmarried. Not looking anymore, but I am waiting on the Lord. I can and have taken the direct approach, the roundabout “bide my time” approach, even the “pounce” approach. These didn’t end well. While I am tired and can foresee myself single forever, I don’t hate women because they don’t choose me. I know this because I have had girls interested in me act creepy around me and I wasn’t a bit interested in them. I have had huge crushes on girls that didn’t want to be anything but friends, but that is OK. It has to be. I can relate to some of what the men say on this site… trouble is, as genuine as you may be, some of the comments made here don’t seem to show Christ’s love.

    Brothers, let’s serve our sisters by being their friends, and not take offense that God didn’t wire them to be attracted to us, if they are not. Churches are houses full of sinners, the only difference is that Christ died for our salvation. Let’s not hate anymore, or fret away, or pine away our lifes, but trust him. Christ said that we are worth more than many sparrows, but not one falls from the sky without the *will* of the Father. God may bless you in your life, but he may not in a way you wanted. I don’t necessarily agree that we should “Stop Praying and Start Asking”. I think we should love the LORD first, and ASK of Him, but also we should be willing to accept this single cross and do good anyway, whether or not anyone does good first to us. Please “Don’t stop praying, or asking.” Don’t give up ever that God might answer that prayer, especially if its one that you know he’s made you for. And women, I can’t imagine where you all go to church, if no one has asked you out, but I do pray you also find comfort in the fact that God has a plan for your life, and loves you just the same, regardless! Peace.

  35. Stewie (not my name) says:

    Interesting post. I’m going to be very honest in this comment. I’m a 23 year-old guy, college degree, and I make well into six figures at a 9-5 desk job. Nobody, not even my parents, know that last part about me (thank God for anonymous commenting). It puts me in an awkward situation. Girls can only tell I work for a well-known company and appear to be successful.

    I’m very quiet and shy in just about everything and stay behind the scenes. I let myself go a little bit at work, but still have the reputation of being reserved. I’ve tried doing that in my circle of friends, but people assume I’m just trying to get attention since I’ve built that “shy guy” reputation.

    I have asked a few girls out over the last few years. I have also taken girls to see movies, get ice cream, or see a broadway musical (not in NY, though) and told them we were only going as friends. I have also asked a few out on real dates:

    Girl 1: Ask if she wants to go on a date. She says sure. We go… I take her back home and drop her off. I tell her I had a lot of fun, and ask if she wants to go on another date sometime. She says “let’s just be friends. We can get coffee next week if you want to”. I took her up on the coffee just to show no hard feelings, and then left it at that.

    Girl 2: Ask her out for coffee. She says sure. We go, spend 3 hours in the coffee shop and both thought it was only 30 minutes. I ask her to go out again, she says yes. We go out. Make tentative plans to go out again… then I get vague excuses, followed by “I’ll let you know when I’m in town”, and she never did.

    Girl 1 again: A year later, ask her out for coffee. Check with her again to see if she changed her mind. Nope. I tell her I won’t ever ask again so she doesn’t need to worry about this becoming a yearly occurrence.

    Girl 3: Ask her if she wants to see a movie. She says sure. See movie… later we get coffee, then I ask her out for a formal-ish dinner. She reciprocates the interest. Two months later, ask her about moving forward. I was declined with a “moving too fast” response that I’m quite sure was hiding a “not interested” message. I told her we could still be friends (which we are), and that was that.

    Girl 4: Friend of a friend of a friend. Saw each other in a group setting for a few hours. Hit her up on Facebook afterwards, and now we’re talking quite a bit and talking about how we want to move forward.

    Now, all of that happened in approximately 2 years. Four girls – and they weren’t me grasping at straws – these are all very attractive (in all ways, not just physically) girls. I don’t think that is unreasonable, and it wasn’t hard to do once you get over yourself. That said, there is a problem with the Christian community. People allude to things like “wait, weren’t you just ‘going out with’ so-and-so?” People, getting coffee is not a proclamation of undying love – so let’s not treat it that way.

    I got off my butt and started asking. It took a little while, but so far so good on girl #4. I’m not an overly attractive guy. I don’t think I’m ugly, but I don’t hit the gym, I’m not super tall, and my hairline is already receding.

    On the flip side, there are many girls who I know would say “no” to a first date with me – and I didn’t bother asking them. I don’t meet their criteria; I’m not tall, I’m not outgoing, I don’t have a six-pack, I didn’t play football in high school, and I don’t play guitar and sing, which would, so it seems, forgive the sins of not being in the gym all the time. I can’t help but wonder if it is these girls that will hit their early thirties, realize that they probably won’t get the guy of their dreams, and then start complaining about the lack of guys who ask them out. Well, once they get the reputation of declining the guys that they now want to ask them out (or make comments on Facebook of how hot an actor is) – it is a comical situation for those disassociated with the situation.

    Overall, this is an awkward situation for me. I downplay what I do at work, because of my fear that somehow these girls will start thinking they will be set for life and then suddenly are ok with dating me. I don’t have much that draws attention to me – and the single biggest thing that would draw attention to me, I am hiding like it doesn’t exist.

    • Michael says:

      Stewie! Sounds like you are doing all the right things to me! I think it is great that you want to take the connection with girl #4 offline. Dating isnt easy, but I love how you are jumping right in. For good guys like us sometimes it takes a few years. I didnt find the right one till 28. Thanks for doing this with integrity! Keep it up!

  36. Stephen says:

    Well, I gave up on relationships a long time ago. The reason we now see so many articles telling Christian men to man up and start pursuing women is because in recent years many men have woken up to the dangers of marriage. Men are not as stupid as what women think they are. You can only fool men for so long until they wake up and put their foot down. The fact that the internet is packed with these kind of articles is proof that the feminized churches are upset that men are waking up.

    This is what baffles me: more women than ever, even in the church, are filing for divorce for unbiblical reasons. Both men and women in the church are committing adultery at a high rate, but the difference is that it’s usually the men who come off worse, as the family courts hate and loathe anything that’s male. Then we have Christian women with incredible high standards. I didn’t say standards, I said “high standards.” And then we have preachers who mock and belittle men in the pulpit, while their female congregation laugh and applaud. I have read endless horror stories from Christian men about how their ex wives made their life a living hell, either by committing adultery or nagging them half to death.

    As a man the last thing I want is a woman who plays the victim and tells men that they need to man up and start pursuing them. A true godly woman is a woman who totally opposes feminism, a woman who respects men and opposes male bashing. A woman who focuses on what she can do to be a godly wife, to be a helper to her husband. Unless women remove the plank from their own eye, more men will continue to stay single. Do I, as a young man, want to get married? Hmmm…..thanks, but no thanks.

    Good luck

    • Mickey says:


      I am nearly 50 years of age, and I completely relate to what you are saying.

      Here are a few additional things along those lines I’ve noticed over the past 25-30 years which led me to throw in the sponge on all this:

      1) Most women believe men are expendable at best, and useless as usual.

      2) Most women believe that men are the enemy.

      3) If a guy is a so-called “alpha”, he’s written off as phony…but if he ISN’T an alpha, he’s a WUSS!!! Thus, a guy can’t win for trying.

      4) In this day and age, an entire generation of men, after being groomed to treat women with kindness, respect, honesty and humor, are invariably lumped into the usual anti-male diatribe of “all men are…(insert insult here).”

      5) Nothing a guy does is good enough for most women in this day and age.

      6) The male-bashing, man-hating feminazis have taken over the debate and will kill anyone who dares to disagree with them.

      So, it’s real hard for those women who claim to want a good man yet push men away at the same time. How’s that for irony?

      For a lot of guys, myself included, when we’re hit with the “men are dogs” mentality on a regular basis every freakin’ day, it sure is hell hard (at least for me) to think that meeting the allegedly “fair sex” is not otherwise pointless.

      On top of all that, when a guy does try to prove himself, he’s hit yet again with the feminazi diatribe of “men just don’t get it!”

      Take it for whatever it’s worth, but when all that is out there is the enemy camp, one does not go in.

      • Stephen says:

        That’s exactly how I feel. I even here from highly respected pastors or scholars things like, “Men are ugly” “Women are smarter than men” “Women don’t need men” “God especially loves the woman” etc.

        I’m not joking. I have heard these comments from highly respected pastors and Bible scholars, and the women in their congregation, and even some of the men, laugh and applaud. As a young man, this makes me feel belittled. All it does is push me away from marriage. I couldn’t really care if the secular world belittles men, but when highly respected pastors do it, it just makes me want to avoid church and marriage altogether.

        This problem was mainly caused by the Rockefellers. One of the Rockefellers apparently admitted that in the 1960’s, the Rockefeller family funded feminism and made sure it got all over the news papers. Their goal was to create a “battle of the sexes” to entice women against men to break up the family. They wanted women in work so that they could be taxed. They also wanted women and children to rely on the state instead of their own husbands or fathers. This is no accident. It’s an agenda that started in the 1960’s. Women have been duped. Men have been deprived of their identity and are realizing that they are better off being single.

      • Mickey says:


        I know what you mean, as I too have heard many of those same comments over the years. If the allegedly “fair sex” doesn’t want me, so be it. I have no problem flying solo.

    • Special K says:

      I agree. I’m in my early 30’s and already know I never want to get married. I think God is fine with my decision on that. He has never pressured me to want it. Singleness is a wonderful thing, especially when you are at peace with it.

  37. LadY Europe says:

    Female here and much of what these men are saying about these “man up” articles is true….there are a lot of them lately. And its because Christian women are waiting and waiting and waiting for men to ask us out and its just not happening. I think the failure of the church maybe is that it hasn’t attempted to get at the root of what men are really thinking and why all the anger towards women. I know a lot of chaste Christian women who say the men are the picky ones so who knows. We are turning down non-Christian men who treat us like gold, in order to not be unequally-yoked. Having to do that in order to be faithful can be heart-wrenching, knowing what the American Christian singles scene really is.

    Some of the men I have had to turn down who are not Christians are not American and were soooo patient to get to know me, and persistent while not laying a hand on me. This made me like them more. My non-American female friends don’t understand American men and their ways with women. So I think there is some cultural disaster we have here in America now where men and women are just not coming together and not interested in each other anymore- or we are not being groomed and raised in a way to be attractive to each other. I travel overseas and am treated with so much more respect. I don’t feel that tension between men and women, let’s say, it’s more natural outside these borders. I think this is why many American men who travel also feel the same about foreign women. it works both ways. And you can get away from all the materialism and hyper careerism so prevalent in the US—this stuff is driving women to be more masculine and is emasculating (or hypermasculating) men. Let’s just say that I feel more feminine when NOT in the US. And being a “nice” and soft spoken man (what men would call beta I guess) in other countries is not seen as a weakness as it is here. At this point it is game over for me here and I’m hoping to move in a year or two if I can- if only for a better quality of life and more pleasant/less stressful environment. I don’t think its anyone’s fault really men or women one side or the other. We are all fallen. It’s the culture. it’s the music, it’s the images on TV, etc etc….result is utter confusion. I hope I have written this respectfully. Good luck to everyone.

  38. Mr. Anonymous says:

    Ok. Well here goes nothing…. First off I’m just gonna be straight forward and honest and I just wanna get this weight off my mind. I hope this helps some Christian girls out. So I’m a Christian guy and by no means the best Christian man out there. I am really shy when it comes to girls but I still know how to treat a girl right. I know how I wanna treat a girl right and I have genuinely good intentions when I’m interested in a girl. The problem with the Christian dating scene is it puts WAY too much pressure on men. Call me a sissy tell me to step up like this article does but I promise you no man is gonna wanna step up when he knows he’s gonna take a hit for something that’s not worth taking a hit for. And that thing I’m talking about taking a hit for is a genuine relationship. See the problem with the Church is it makes relationships not genuine and that is why I believe (correct me if Im wrong) Christian men may be going towards the secular dating scene. See it’s so maddening as a guy to hear about a set of rules to follow in dating in order to be “pure”. And we all know the church loves to talk about these rules as “boundaries”. First thing about this is folks we have to realize that there is no action whatsoever that can make us pure. Only the grace of Jesus Christ can make me pure. I’m a sinner and since I have sinned once that makes me unpure for the rest of my life. There is nothing I can do that can make me pure except for accepting that only the blood of Jesus can make me pure and by falling under his true grace can I truly be pure. With that being said let’s flow into the second part of my previous statement about boundaries. Don’t get me wrong every relationship needs boundaries but the Church completely over does it. For instance guys in my youth group say they won’t hug or kiss their girl for more than 3 seconds. What the heck?! 3 seconds?! That’s not even a relationship. That’s just flakiness. As a guy I need a girls affection to keep me going. I need to know she cares for me and most of all that she wants me. And words are not enough. There are gonna be times where ill need a girl
    to cuddle with me for hours while looking me in the eyes and without saying a word she can tell me just by the way she’s letting me hold her that I’m her man. And yes another component of that is long genuine kisses. There is nothing unbiblical about this and please don’t try to rebuke me on that (unless you have a true rebuke but none of this oh its unpure cause it can lead to something else) People say oh that leads to sex. What you have to realize is if that leads to sex that’s because i have already lost the battle in my heart and before I was in that situation already in my heart I knew I wanted her for sex. Now that’s a sin that can be backed up biblically. And there are many safe guards to be put in place so that when I’m getting close to a girl in that kind of situation that it doesn’t turn sexual. There is a way to cuddle and kiss passionately without it turning into sex. It’s called I care for her and I wouldn’t cross that line cause I care for her. Moving on though it seems that no Christian girl wants this. It’s always “leave room for Jesus” and that’s why the secular dating scene seems better cause girls wanna get close. Another frustrating thing with the church dating scene is that it says dating is all about marriage. NO IT IS NOT! I am mature enough to say that I will not be mature enough to know when a relationship starts if the girl I’m dating is wife material so please stop putting that pressure on me. The reason I believe people think dating = pursuit of marriage is because the bible only
    Addresses marriage and not dating. This is because dating has only been occurring for the past hundred maybe a little more than that years. Everything before was prearrange marriages. The perspective that dating =
    Pursuit of marriage needs to stop cause its so damaging to both guys and girls. IT PUTS WAY TOO
    MUCH PRESSURE ON PEOPLE to the point it can make people sad and second guess themselves. Dating does have a purpose and that purpose is friendship just one that is super
    Awesome and you can only have it with one person and it is a whole lot more intimate than a normal friendship. Lastly girls stop complaining to the guys about stepping up. It’s a huge turnoff. It doesn’t make us feel wanted. It makes us feel like you feel like you’re entitled to us. Men want to be WANTED just like women do. So talk to us and flirt with us you will definitely get our attention. This may seem like dating suicide but sometimes you just need to tell us you wanna go on a date or see us as boyfriend material cause men play mind games with ourselves to the point we shoot ourselves in the foot. This is why there’s the she’s way out of my league disease among
    Men because we play mind games. Sometimes the girl needs to break that mirage…

  39. Will says:

    I am trying to hold my tongue, but really. Srsly. I guess you asked for it when you started a post with “stop praying”. The truth is the Lord is too awesome to avoid that, and the reality is we have to pray. Asking is okay too, but for goodness sake, be willing to allow that another living breathing creature has the right to say NO, and to do so on her own freewill, without making sinful judgements. Yes, we all fall, and all feel entitled to some things, but the truth is that without Christ we are wretched and the wrath of God is upon us, We deserve nothing and are promised nothing, but we have life, and a life that is lived as a gift is better than a life spent waiting for one. . .Also, I think this blog for some reason is meant to support publishing a book if I am not mistaken. Let’s be mindful of that. My next post, if I even write one, will be a response to the book. Sorry if I rambled any.

  40. korin says:

    Man,overpray, asking and fear whether this will work out is so me!! I guess one of the thing im facing now is whether my feeling is true. Can anybody advise me what i should do? I feel something(emotionally) but a bit different from the feeling that i felt years before with other girls…
    She’s definitely a godly woman and a very good friend.

  41. John says:

    My problem isn’t the fact that I’m shy or vague about my intentions with a girl I find interesting. Quite frankly I find it hard to even think in terms of what you’ve described in this article. My problem is the exact opposite. Anytime in my life I’ve ever been very direct with a Christian woman that I was genuinely interested in and ask her out to dinner or coffee or anything – I get the cold shoulder or excuses. In my experience, Christian women are very cautious and not really interested in dating. They’ve seemed to have read too many books filled with thought processes that I can’t describe here with appropriate language. Whereas anytime I pursue a girl who isn’t a believer (which I’m not doing anymore) it’s the easiest thing. They are not inhibited by over-thinking the situation. Any advice you could give would be most appreciated as I’ve become increasingly disheartened and worried about the situation – I’m pretty clueless on it as a whole.

  42. Nikki says:

    As a 27 year old single woman, I’m fully aware of pressure to men and women in the dating scene, even more so being Christian. I just started reading Josh Harris’ book and I agree that friendships are essential prior to marriage. Making the move from friend to bf/gf needs to have caution so that there is as little hurt as possible if for some reason the relationship doesn’t work. Maybe my view is based on my past. I was in a ltr that didn’t lead to marriage and it has definitely disappointed me but I’m a resilient woman and I realize that it was a lesson learned. The relationship wasn’t God led(though we claimed to be believers). Many of the comments from guys on here sound jaded and I think it’s just based on their experiences. I think like some of the men with more positive responses said, you can’t let the fear of rejection stop you. I rather be rejected than to end up in another dead in relationship. Besides getting to know someone should be enjoyable, even if it doesn’t become love.

    I have standards and they’re similar to what I wanted before I began changing my relationship with God,

    . stable income
    . desire to get married
    . moral
    . strong relationship with God
    . encourage each other to be Christlike
    . wants children
    . loving and affectionate
    . compassionate

    with the exception of setting boundaries while dating. Now that doesn’t mean I won’t be affectionate to my future boyfriend/fiancé, but being Christ like would kept in mind. Just as with racial stereotypes, I don’t believe you should judge a male or female based on your previous interactions.

    • Gurilio (male) says:

      I have been wrestling with this lately. I have found that when I am focusing on God and His glory that I am the most happy and filled. I think that we need to have faith in God that He will lead us into these awesome relationships with our eventual spouses (if that is His plan for us).

      I definitely agree that as a guy, I need to be more open to the “dating” scene. I have a big stigma on the act of dating as a way too serious thing. I should be inviting girls to coffee more often-especially since I am introverted, and I get to know others a lot better one-on-one. But I also think that oftentimes those people that we have friendships with lead to the best relationships because you get to know them as a person. These important relationships take time which I know that we all have problems with being patient (I do!). Also, I am freakin scared-it is ridiculously hard for me to be open with women-there is always that “what if.”

      Maybe the best way to go about this whole thing is just to not worry about it. A lot of what I am reading is men and women worrying about it. Refer to Matthew chapter 6:25-34:
      25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[a]?

      28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

      If God takes care of these birds and flowers how much more will He take care of our future?-so much more! I have just been trying to live in the moment, spend time with my friends, and just enjoy their company. How much time do we all lose in our life worrying about something that God would easily take care of? I know I waste way too much time with this.

      I recently got rejected for a friend who I have had feelings for for a while-she is an amazing Christian woman. The coolest thing that I saw was how honest and straightforward she was when she told me that she didn’t like me in that way. It taught me a lot of how I should be in all my relationships (honest and straightforward no matter what). I think the silver lining for the whole situation personally, is that it has strengthened my faith in God-like in John 15:1-9:
      “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

      5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

      9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

      He is pruning us. Ya it still hurts during the moment, but if we keep our sights on God then it will be more than fine, and He will strengthen us! We will grow even stronger through Him. All we have to do is “remain in His love.”

      But I agree with the author that guys need to be more intentional and open to “dating” because how else will we really know what we are looking for in a woman? But I also think that prayer and faith are still major steps in the dating process. I just think that the focus shouldn’t be on finding a wife, but having a more fulfilling relationship with God-and God will bless us and push us in the direction He wants us to go.

      This is what I think about this whole thing. What do you all think?

  43. suzie says:

    I just wanted to chime in a bit. As a woman at late 30s, I understand the many challenges faced by men. I feel am on the same side of the pool. I am not into feminist movement at all, I support women empowerment while keep striving to bring in “feminine energy” into different areas of life. Women have been exposed to so so many opportunities, during dating women might even got confused between her admiration to guys she met at the office and the idealism and happiness manifesto that have been bombarded through media and daily TV shows. But I would say the earlier the rejection the better is for Christian men. It’s not about men at all. However, in that spirit, I would kindly suggest men to approach women that you think you’re in synch with her way of thinking: modern/liberal, more family oriented, a little bit of both, and how her life experiences brought her right in front of you. Lifestyle and life outlook in general, intellect are very very important for the success of marriage. These women look similar from their faith, but in their core they’re very different. We are told to have a checklist so we won’t go for any guy who asked us out then realize he isn’t a good fit later (wasting time is more of a risk from women side). Her checklist shouldn’t be preventing a man to keep staying confident (humbled confident). That rejection would benefit a man to evaluate a woman more objectively for future pursuits AND motivate him to be a better man (if her standard is worth to strive for, but NO, thanks to a gold digger!). Why have to blame women ? Just because your parents and your friends love you, those rejections don’t mean anything at all that you’re unworthy. Women take dates seriously because again, time is much more precious on our side, the risk to get pregnant with irresponsible guys. If you don’t’ want to get the pressure right off the second date, try joining the clubs/gyms/seminars for the purpose only to give you exposure with female interactions. if you guys start to look from this mindset, there would be less frustration and you would be more equipped to handle emotional (not just physical) expectations.

    So I couldn’t agree more, Christian men don’t text, don’t string along women he truly cared, carefully evaluate what he wants and then go for it, don’t hold grudges if he’s stumbled and feels a little unworthy, trains himself to connect his heart and his brain, do the best a human could possibly do and still appreciate women virtues. First, find out your type, when you meet her find out who she really is, if you think she’s a go then approach her, understand her risks, MAN UP during dates and balance your life to manage pressures,, and trust God for the outcome. If you cant stand all these trials and tribulations, so don’t want to get married, then stay single because it is your choice.

  44. Benjamin says:

    Very intersting article I’m a christian single guy.I’m looking for a godly woman.I have been turned down by all christian girls I have asked out.look I’m a guy who comes from a criminal lifestyle gangmember organized crime etc.but I found christ.I have zero christian friends.I dont feel the love in christian churches or groups.I can tell you I saw more love from my the gang it was familia or this chtistian lifestyle it looks fake to me.I attended a singles group in church and lo n behold all they talk was about money and if you had material things you would be a potential mate.this christians have made me want to quit and sometimes I doubt God exists.I had a life when I.wasnt christian.I can get girls at another place but I really want a godly woman.I’m trying to live a godly life.christian girls ive seen go for badboys non christian.I try imitate chris but its a turnofff to christian girls.what can I do I can have my life back if I quit being christian.the christians are pushing me away.

    • Michael Dean says:

      Hey Benjamin,

      Thanks so much for your comment and sharing your heart. Starting a new life can be really hard right! I was so moved by what you said. The best advice that I got regarding waiting and looking for a Godly woman is to “become the right person the right person is looking for”. In other words, become the type of person that you are looking for. Start working on yourself, preparing yourself for that woman when God brings her to you. Start working on being the typeof father that you want to be. It can be really hard when the Christian girls are attracted to the wrong type of guy im sure, but the right girl will be attracted to you in time.

      I really hope that you can find some Christian friends, I know how hard it can be to find those people. However every time I prayed for Christian community, God always provided. Let us know how we can be praying for you Benjamin.


      • Benjamin says:

        Hello sir greetings I hear what yoyr trying to say but will being a godly guy help me attract christian girl no.christian girls or non christian girls are not attracted to ch istian guys unless your a made man.cmoon michael I know how things work I wasnt born yesterday.but I’m sure there are good godly women.97% of christian jesus loving love thumping girls I’ve met date or dated non christian guys.when I wasnt christian I didnt have problems dating but now I want to please God so I look for a woman in church.I can tell u about my experiences with christian women and I can tell somethings wrong with their psychology.2 lifestyles as in hiding behind the I love jesus scripture posting girls.its all psychological.maybe I should be a badboy again lol na I still have to confide in God I can’t wait on God for a godly wife a church woman in church claims she waitec on God and she found a mate in her 60’s no joke.I guess ill probobly try dating non christian girls with the pretext of maybe I can change them.God bless uou michael

        • Lyn says:

          Don’t give in, that’s what the devil wants you to do so that you will be defeated. Hold on, I am too.It’s been a rocky road for me. The Christian men don’t even talk to me, only the unsaved men ask me out but, I am still holding on. I will continue to live for the Lord and keep my morals. If they reject you, they were not the people God had in mind for you to be involved with. He is looking out for us and he has someone special out there.

  45. John Griffin says:

    Haha! This article is dead WRONG!!!!!!!!! I know you don’t want anyone to disagree with you because you’re too scared to defend your accusations; so, I don’t expect to see my comment listed, but at least my conscience will be clear knowing that I responded to these ridiculous statements:

    Simply put, this message that Christian Men don’t “Step Up,” is garbage. If anything the opposite is true. I know plenty of Godly men (who have their life together) that try to make progress with Christian women but either get turned down flat or the women won’t even have a conversation with them. Many Godly men that I know, myself included, try to make conversation with Christian women, or ask them for their phone number, or try to friend them on facebook only to be met with disdain.

    I meet women all the time. I find that Non-Christian women make a strong effort to get to know me. They often give me their number or give me signals to ask for theirs. They usually want the same thing that Christian women want: Husband, house, white picket fence, 2.5 kids, etc. HOWEVER, they know their is a shortage of reliable men in the world. When they meet one they are drawn to them like flies to honey. But in the church the women are spoiled. Every man is reading his Bible, having quiet times, serving, discipling, joining small groups, etc. Reliable men are a dime a dozen in the church. That’s why Christian women reject any effort from men to connect with them. They have to be around you for a year in a small group before you’ve EARNED the right to be their facebook friend (they’ve usually got 2,000 FB friends anyway so your effort to friend them means nothing), another year before they give you their number, and then they turn you down when you ask them out anyway. I’m surprised so many Christian men have the patience and perseverance to pursue a Christian woman in the modern American Church.

    So, just to be clear – YOU CAN’T ASK A WOMAN OUT IF SHE WON’T TALK TO YOU – genius. Christian dating is an unbelievably frustrating process. The Church does a terrible job of creating venues for Christian men and women to get to know each other. That’s why everybody goes on line now. At least online they know that the women are open to getting to know someone. I challenge those reading this to prove me wrong. Its EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE to say Christian men don’t ask women out.

    The reality is that if you’re a Christian man interested in a Christian woman, she doesn’t want to know you. She’s built up some fantasy in her mind and when you show up, you don’t measure up. You could do everything right: Love the Lord, be significantly involved in the Church, have a good job, be responsible, and treat them with the utmost respect and none of it will matter if you don’t make her ‘feel’ like her fantasy. She thinks giving you her number means she not guarding her heart – the people who discourage women from talking to Godly men, or who do not help to create venues for people to meet, get to know each other, and eventually marry are likened to godless hypocrites – 1 Tim. 4:3.

    Instead of jumping on the band wagon of blaming Godly men who respectfully and creatively try to get to know Christian women (only to be rejected in favor of a life alone) why don’t you do your part and encourage women to be honored by a Godly man’s pursuit, and not treat it as if its beneath them.

    By the way, MEN – There is NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING A GIRL OUT THROUGH TEXT MESSAGES. Texting is a very basic medium of modern communication. Anyone who denies this is simply not texting. So, use a text to ask a girl for coffee if the girl is honorable enough to give you her number. Good luck Men. I honestly hope it works out for you, but with the culture of the Modern American Church it will likely take an act of God – and it shouldn’t… Maybe someday those people who met their spouse at age 21 will recognize this obvious problem and help to close the gap. Until then Men, I pray for your continued perseverance because if this article is any indication you are on your own.

  46. @think@ says:

    Women,ladies, here is something for you to consider. You, as the gender, wanted to be treated equally to men and now you are, somewhat. You, ladies, have the same apportunity, if not better, to get educated and find yourself a career. You also have an apportunity to eat right and loose weight, if needed. Also, just because you are the female does not mean that guys will want to date you. Ladies, you wanted equality and you’ve got equality. If you are not dating or finding anyone to meet with, it is your fault. You have the vocal cords and the mouth with lips, which you can use by asking the guy out on the date. Again, you wanted equality and here it is. The only difference between male and female is their sexual orientation. Do not expect guys to always ask you out because they will not. Next, if you’re anything over 25 years old without the career and the degree, education, you’re not brining anything worthwhile to the table. Ask yourselves, if you want the successfull man to date, what makes you think that men will want to date you if you’re not successfull ? Ladies, you can take this as the fact or, twist it any way you want to personally satisfy your self image. However, facts still remain facts regardless if you want to believe it or not.

  47. FustratedSingleGuy says:

    I really found this article and comments helpful. Thank you. I am a 33 yo man, still single and have gone from “no dating until you’re pretty sure she’s the one” to where I think perhaps I need to be more open with girls I am interested in. My great fear is hurting someone, I can deal with the rejection if she is not interested but I really want to do what is right by her. But I do think I am taking “dating” too seriously. I just took a girl on a date on Friday. She’s really lovely but we are so very different (not that I think differences necessarily mean it can’t work). I really have no idea whether I should pursue things further – the main reason being that she is a very strong minded, confident woman who I feel very insecure in being able to lead well as I should. In a manner of speaking, I’m afraid she will “wear the pants” in the relationship! Because I take dating so seriously, I’ve been in a state of panic over whether I should pursue things further at the risk of leading her on further and causing more hurt if i decide it’s best not to continue (she was the one that asked for a second date, I only initiated the first one). In my desperation I ended at this article so try to find out how other Christians approach dating (I think good, guidance from mature godly men and women in our churches is so lacking in this regard – we all need to figure things out for ourselves and go through all the pains and frustrations with no-one to guide us!). Sometimes I’m afraid I’m too picky in finding a wife, but then I’m afraid to end up in a marriage that will be just so very difficult for both of us. I have been so very frustrated. I just want a kind, gentle, godly woman that I get along with well. My “list” is no longer than that, but even that seems so hard to find! I did find one a few years ago, then my best friend asked her out the same week I was planning to. They are now married with two kids. And here i am still looking and praying and hoping and now also “asking out” for coffee!

    • Michael Dean says:

      “I’m afraid she will “wear the pants” in the relationship!”

      Hey @FrustratedSingleGuy,

      I chose a really strong woman and I admit that I had that fear in dating as well! It seems like she is really interested in you, and probably what you are interpreting as “confidence” is actually vulnerability on her part. The best advice I got on loving a woman well and leading her was from a good friend who just said ‘love yourself, lead yourself, and only then will you learn how to love a woman well.”

      I say go for it! Go on a second date, take a deep breath and trust. It isnt hopeless!


  48. Mickey says:

    The question, still unanswered, still remains: HOW IS ANY GUY SUPPOSED TO HAVE FAITH IN DATING???

    • Michael Dean says:

      Hey Micky,
      It is hard to argue with someone who has a cynical attitude, but I would say it’s not about having faith in dating, its about having faith in God and letting him write your story. For guys it is being vulnerable, which is not a one time thing but a lifestyle. If dating is to prepare you well for marriage then vulnerability is step 1.


      • Mickey says:

        Hi Michael.

        Your point is well taken. Still, when you have women who are open in their antipathy to men, a family court system set up to destroy husbands and fathers, and a dating system where most guys don’t have any kind of a prayer to succeed, well, it’s kind of hard to see any upside in trying to meet the allegedly “fair sex.” As a previous poster mentioned, it’s real hard to ask a woman out when many women won’t even talk to any guy.

        So, yes, I am cynical. I don’t say it with any pride or defiance. I’m just resigned to the fact that meeting the so-called right person is a pipe dream.

        I trust that God will forgive me for my cynicism.

        • John Griffin says:

          Hey Mickey,

          I can understand your frustration. I would encourage you, first, to recognize the difference between the American Church and America as a society. The court system is something out of the Church’s realm and responsibility. Of course as Christians we should influence society and the courts, but we don’t control them. The government is a separate entity.

          The bigger issue is: What is the Church doing to improve Christian dating?

          That is something that we DIRECTLY control. The Church spends A LOT of time, energy, and resources on marriage advice and helping people navigate the difficulties of marriage. In compared to marriage the Church’s attitude toward Singles is definitely an afterthought. The majority of advice that I have heard regarding Christian dating is not really advice at all. It mostly consists of telling men that they need to “Step Up.” Which, as I mentioned previously is insulting and offensive. There are always areas of our life that we as believers have to be working on, but, personally, I’m tired of Church Leaders (who met their spouse before they were 25) targeting single men as if we are the problem with Christian Dating. Here’s a simple list of things that the Church should be doing (that they are often not doing) that would have a positive impact on the dating environment:

          1. Create venues for people to meet. Churches are moving away from singles groups. This is bad. A singles group should be a priority at any Church. It should meet before lunch on Sundays so singles can comfortably fellowship afterwards. Small groups with singles should consist of only singles; except for the leadership. Churches should plan activities for men and women to have fun together. They should plan something for every weekend. In short, the Church needs to help people meet.

          2. College age Christians should be encouraged to join a singles group after they graduate. In order for this to happen the Singles and College group should know each other. There should be a comfortable transition from College to Singles group so that there is not a MASSIVE gap between college and singles. No 23 year old single woman is going to go to a Single group if the average age is 40. This encourages isolation for young singles, and eventually discouragement and despair.

          3. Young Women should be encouraged to make themselves available to dating/marriage. Obviously you can’t force people to get married, but the message in the Church to young women (18+) should be to get married. This should be the message before college or career. The problem is that we have young people who are biologically ready for marriage (see all history before 1960), but we, as a Church, are telling them that they are too young. Essentially the Church is telling them not to have Sex, but also not to get married… Something’s gotta give. There is a lot that a man needs to do in order to be ready for marriage. There is not as much for a woman to do. She doesn’t even need a job. If she is an adult reading her Bible then she should be getting ready for marriage. If not, then the Church Leadership is to blame for not emphasizing this.

          4. Stop Discouraging men who try to meet women online and who text women when making a date. The world has changed. We communicate with technology now. If not, you wouldn’t be reading this post. If a man wants to use texting to ask a woman for coffee then he should not get criticized. He should be praised for asking her out and taking the first step towards marriage and the ‘relationship life’ God has laid out for him in scripture. There’s nothing wrong with texting and, of course, there is no scriptural basis for this criticism. Also, dating online should be encouraged. We should do everything we can to help godly men and women meet. One logistical problem with modern society is that everyone has their own specialty. 100 years ago everyone in the same town had everything in common. Now, you may have more in common with someone overseas than with your neighbor. We should encourage men and women to use Every Means Available to them to meet godly believers, of the opposite sex, that they relate to. Then date them, and marry them.

          5. Finally, and maybe most importantly, the Church needs to praise and understand ‘attraction.’ Being attracted to the opposite sex is something natural that God made for us. Many men and women don’t know the difference between attraction and lust. They are told all the evils of premarital sex. Consequently many are very confused about attraction. The Church should have seminars on what attracts men and women to each other so that they can better develop themselves into the attractive people that God wants them to be.

          Mickey, I want to encourage you to talk to your Church leaders about these points. Get deeply involved in your singles group. If they don’t have one, stress that they start one. Also, date online, learn how to be social. Talk to the opposite sex. Get to know them, get phone numbers, and ask them out any way you can that you think will help you connect to a godly woman.

          I hope this helps. Good luck!

        • Michael Dean says:

          Hey Micky,
          Thanks for your candor, that is such an honorable trait!


        • Ryan says:

          I’m successful. I guess your point that there isn’t a prayer is wrong.

  49. Saddened says:

    Wow…I want to weigh in from my own personal experiences…not saying this is the general rule. As a woman, whose husband unbiblically divorced her (he fell away) I find this attitude of giving up on dating discouraging. For me past experiences wouldn’t give me a reason to give up ever. In life, we must be able to endure, be it periodically, temporary moments of suffering; rejection, loneliness, etc. Isn’t that what part of the Christian faith is about? I think that’s what the whole “man up” manta is poiting at….if you are giving up on dating, what is showing me that you won’t give up on marriage? To me your attitude toward dating is an indicator of how you will handle those seasons of intense trial in marriage….and let me tell you there will be seasons…sometimes long seasons. It is scary to hear someone sound bitter, and defeated, why my God has told me that with Him all things are possible, therefore I press on, to attain the goal. I encourage men here to take a step back. We all ( men and woman ) need to reflect on what are the areas in which we need to be purposefully and prayerfully seeking God in the areas we still need to work on. If we pridefully think we have it all, perhaps God has not granted our hearts desire because He is still trying to root out that pride within us. Also there are many sold out, women for God who believe in biblical marriage, I know tons, but our sole criteria is he passionately seeking out Gods calling and purpose on his life. There are women who are not looking for superficial things. We do want a man after Gods heart, a man who wants to please God, way before pleasing us, because if he’s doing that then a godly woman should happy. It’s not about perfection, but seeing consistent effort, falling down, getting up, asking for help, failing again, getting up, but knowing If he continues to cling to Gods truth he will get there. As women we will cheer you on, know when to zip our lips, always have a forgiving heart. Maybe the message came across too harsh with ” man up” but I think the basic message is don’t give up, keeping trying. God bless.

    • Mickey says:

      It’s real easy to say “don’t give up.” So how long should a guy keep pursuing an exercise in futility without throwing in the sponge?

      • Saddened says:

        Unless he feels God is specifically calling him to single hood he should not give up ever, however if something isn’t working then, perhaps there could be things that need to change. This is where I’d probably seek wise counsel. Maybe I’m going after the wrong people, maybe my expectations are not realistic, maybe there are sin issues that need to be worked on within, before a successful relationship can be pursued. That takes great maturity and humility to look inward and to evaluate those tough places that sometimes dwell within us. We also have to be willing to hear and adapt to criticism – something most people do seem to be able to do. Ultimately, the stronger your relationship with The Lord becomes the easier these tough moments in life become. I also want to point out that women face tough circumstances in dating just as males do, just that they are different challenges. If we are a woman that really feels emotions deeply, we can struggle immensely with rejection, body image, wounds from abuse, etc in ways that men have no idea. We too have crosses we must pick up and carry till eternity comes. So for me “don’t give up” is more an overall message in life. Few meaningful long lasting things come without deep sacrifice and long struggles.

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  51. Brandon says:

    I’m surprised at how many on here have what I know as “one-itis” and analysis paralysis. That’s not the case for me. Simply put, I’ve been let down and hurt way too much too many times from “Manning up” and “Just go for it, man!” and my heart is grounded to pulp. That’s just from women in general though that I’d meet or try to meet outside of church.

    I’ve been taking steps and making great progress in being more confident and being more attractive to women, but I’m still having a hard time seeing past all the rejections I’ve had that just hang over me like a raincloud and weigh me down. With every rejection, that burden gets a little heavier. You have no idea how unappealing asking a woman out sounds to me right now. Or how sadly laughable I find the idea that anyone would ever like me and want to go out with me precisely because I “manned up”. You don’t just get over it, and a lot of times people are worse off for having tried. Sometimes I feel so bad I can only aspire to be numb.

    So I’m going to say what I wish I was told like 7-8 years ago: Don’t man up. Don’t take risks or chances. Only do it if there isn’t a shred of doubt that she would reject you. If there is a shred of doubt, and you honestly think you can succeed, then don’t do it. Take it from my personal experience, manning up and taking chances doesn’t get you a girlfriend. Taking action and steps to becoming who women want and who you want to be and cultivating the lifestyle you want does. For instance, breaking down something big like external or perceived confidence into all the individual characteristics it is comprised of (never looking down, smiling often, open body language, good posture, looking people in the eye, etc.) and working to master each one individually for at least a week until you master them all and genuinely become more confident and enjoy the rewards and benefits of being that.

    The same concept can be applied to any other big thing you want to accomplish too. Just break it down until it becomes something that is more manageable and work on leveling up from there. Telling guys to just ask more women out more often is like telling someone who’s never trained for it before to just run a marathon. You have to practice and build to it. Being too uncomfortable is just as bad as being too comfortable I think, but there is a healthy balance that is found between being neither of those things.

  52. Wanikwai says:

    First things first. Let your life style with God draws the girl to you. Its not about impressing her with fancy text, flowers, etc..

  53. faith says:

    So how can we women get married? If you are going to tell me meet at church, i will tell you that does not work. I go to church regular not to meet a man but for Christ however many advised that this is a good way to meet others and find the right guy.
    there is no way to do this after mass/service. Everyone leaves and there is no talking. any other activities I went to, the attendees where either very old and not my age or married. Both groups were not interested even for friendship.
    So, How can I meet a good man, have a relationship, and get married?

    • dave says:

      Ms. Faith – Would it absolutely KILL you to ask a man out on a date, if you were attracted to him. Your Prince Charming would be surprised and flattered and take you out. I realize that women say that they want no part of that, but their system results in 50% divorce, their wonderful double standard.

      • Faith says:

        Hello Dave, if you asked me this before many years I would say I can’t, later I am embarrassed to do so. Now I would. I always want to chose who I date. But it won’t be easy because of many heartbreaks of choosing the wrong guys. I did not really have many guys. I found when I did ask one time the guy was so happy but it did not last. He left me without saying anything. I believe it is both sides that make it work

    • Gurilio (male) says:

      Are there any young career Bible studies going on? The church I go to has a bunch of groups for people to get involved in: from volunteering to Bible Studies to men’s, women’s and coed studies.

      Maybe a simple thing you can do is just sit in a place where people your age sit. Introduce yourself before service and start talking to them.

      • Brandon says:


        I agree it is intimidating and incredibly awkward to get the ball rolling when you’re starting with just yourself in a social situation. Is there any action you take on your part when there, or do you just show up? For me, I’ve found it’s almost always some small subtle change that winds up making all the difference. You don’t have to do everything all at once. In fact, I think it’s better not to since that can be overwhelming to both people. Just start by learning names and use them whenever you see that person. Smile at them to show you’re happy to see them and value their company. Maybe you could make it a point to just learn 1 new name each week, remember it, and see if you can meet them again next week as well as learn another new name, and so on, and see what kind of bonds or relationships form from there. Then maybe you could even get to the point where you share 1 thing about yourself or your week or find a way to learn something about them. Maybe make a joke about something and get them to laugh. Just find one thing that’s new each week to do/personal fear to conquer no matter how small it may seem, because you’ll still be that much better for doing so.

        Personally, I’m a huge fan of this method of starting small and slow because it leaves them wanting more and wondering what new thing will be introduced from you and how your relationship will grow, and, again, it doesn’t overwhelm them and lets them get acclimated to you, and, what’s more, the whole while you get to move at a pace that’s comfortable for you.

        Anyway, just some possibilities you could maybe apply to your situation.

        • Faith says:


          I go to church and the mean reason is Jesus Christ. However I did go to some of the church’s activities to meet people and learn too. must of the times the groups where married, families, It just looks like everyone want to do their business and they don’t even want to socialize.. really.
          I am very close the way you are describing. I smile almost always.. I approach people but I don’t push it. the feeling I get that people want their space and they don’t want new friends.
          So I don’t really why I am not married yet, why I am not even in a relationship. I hope if someone can tell me
          What is God’s plan from all this?

          • Brandon says:

            I think people always want to be friends with people they like. People like people who make them feel good about themselves. No one online can diagnose why you or anyone else is single. I would just keep doing the things that bond people together and build relationships. It sounds like you’re already doing some of those things so find a way to keep doing and introducing more dynamics to add to the actions you take to affect people. Kill with kindness. Practice empathy and emphasize things you have in common with that person. Do “push it” a little just because of the simple fact that if what you’re doing now isn’t getting you what you want, that means you need to do more. I really do believe with enough work and time anything can be accomplished and that this is something you can accomplish. I recommend doing that with as many people as you can too; not just people you’re romantically interested in since seeing you with and knowing a bunch of other people are friends with you is way more appealing to a potential love interest than not. Another thing about not wanting to “push it”, don’t fall for the tendency for that to become an excuse to not push past your fears and stop taking action, or trying to come up with different solutions to your problem.

            The point of all of this by the way is to build your confidence, skill, and experience in handling social situations and building personal relationships with people regardless of how long you know them. The goal is to be one of those people everybody knows who just seems to make friends instantly and with little effort. I’m not there yet either, but I really do think anybody can become that if they work hard enough long enough to develop that skill. In addition to it being possible, I also think it’s definitely worth it and everybody owes it to themselves to strive to become that since it’s not good to be involuntarily alone.

            Sorry for the wordiness. Hope it helped anyway.

  54. Logan Green says:

    So is scripture or holding a high standard a bad thing in your opinion? I”m really not trying to be pointed, I just didn’t gather that it was important to you from the article itself. I mean, I’m trying to just tell if a girl is a christian, for starters. I seem to gather that you are saying that I should ask a girl out without knowing that they are a follower of Christ. That’s the biggest reason I’m afraid of asking girls out.

    Plus, I don’t know if I’m really at a place where I should be dating. If I’m still too immature, couldn’t I hurt a girl by dating her and going about it wrong because of my immaturity?

    • Gurilio (male) says:

      In my opinion, I think that since you are thinking about your immaturity and that you don’t want to hurt someone that you like, then you are in the right place! I think that being aware of those two things makes you even more qualified to date.

      Maybe it is more important that you tell the girl where you are at with your relationship with God on that first date. God could possibly use that for His good even if it doesn’t lead to a gf/bf relationship.

      Also, don’t be afraid because Jesus has your back! Rely on God and everything will be more than fine.

        • Scott says:

          Christian women in America are the epitome of “superficial.” They covet what the world has, but feign that worldly pleasures are distasteful; Good Christian women are a barbarous relic, a myth and a collage story conceived in the brick-o-bract tradition of postmodernism. The “godly” women as told in scripture is in modern times the stuff of fantasy, the delusion of the “faithful” man; the bane and canker of the church-going man’s soul. Women of the church are so shallow that there so deep into finding a semblance of the secular-worldly-like man of great looks that they cannot sense the irony of their dual path; they are so deep in the water that they need heliox. Church women are an object to be despised, a mere cut-rate rock to be used to pulverize the ignorance of this hollowed-out species , to pieces so tiny that its reduced to the density of an initial singularity, never escaping the confines of the scwartzchild radius. The modern Christian women is the reason most people today don’t want God. The women of Delilah’s Den are more compassionate and sensitive, and “real” than the modern Christian women; and Christians in general wonder why the world hates Christians? for every Christian women that exists, I’m willing to bet that a few tyrants are born, the root cause of their bitterness being the Christian women. I know! I grew up in the church and all the girls loved me, told me I should model, that I’m beautiful, but then when I reached 28 yrs old, I developed sleep apnea, and I wake up 30 times an hour. The result: I don’t look so hot lately and the Christian women notices. I’ve been finding better luck, though, at the local bars and clubs, and I recently found a great group of men and women friends who put the church to shame. I should have been doing this years ago, but I was brainwashed like the rest of you.

  55. Rockin R says:

    I also somewhat think this article is a joke. “Let me break it down.” for you.

    Woman say that they want men to “man up” The problem with that is this: Once a man does “man up” and ask the girl out, the girl doesn’t want him because she believes that she can find someone better. When that someone better rejects her or it doesn’t work out, she cries and cries that she can’t find a good man. That is complete and utter BS. Here was a nice guy who was interested in you and you turned him down because you thought you could find someone better and now that you don’t have that better man anymore, you don’t have the first one around anyone because you’ve rejected that nice guy and now you are so ashamed that you did that you don’t dare approach him again because you know he tried being kind to you.

    Also, I once knew this Christian girl who will be unnamed. Anyway, this girl and I were the best of friends and she’d always want to hang out with me. She would come over at least once a week to see me. after a few weeks, once she found out that I “liked” her, she began to withdrew. Then a couple days later, she told me on Facebook that she couldn’t date me because God didn’t give her “permission” to date me. However, she met this other guy and all of a sudden, she didn’t even need God’s permission anymore. What is up with that? Also, people keep saying, “The right one will come along,” I have news for you, if the right one comes along, but you don’t meet whatever standards she has for you, then I guess you’re probably not going to find another girl because the one who rejected you was the “right one.” I’ll go as far as to say that you might have 3 or 4 “right” girls for you. If they all reject you though, I guess you might be out of luck then.

    There’s also this other girl who shall remain unnamed; She started talking to me and started leading me on. She always wanted to sit by me and talk to me and act as though we were going out even though she hadn’t really known me a long time. Anyway, one day, I also told her that I liked her and she also withdrew. For a week after that, I bawled my eyes out because I was so hurt. She then wrote to me after the week was over(She had no idea how sad I was) Anyway, she told me that she felt, “Terrible” about what she had done. A week after that, I found out she had a boyfriend. She felt Terrible? Yea right, don’t make me laugh. I just didn’t meet her “standards” She was a Christian as well.

    I think Christian woman need to get over themselves and stop making standards if they really do want to date someone. It’s no fair to us guys who are trying to be nice only to be kicked to the curb and now this article says us guys aren’t doing enough?! That’s utter BS and it needs to change right now. You girls and women need to get off your “high horses” and give a guy a chance who is trying to give you a chance and not play with his feelings. Otherwise, you women are going to be alone for the rest of your lives and you’re not going to get any sympathy from the guys who you rejected if you get any at all.

  56. Jason says:

    The real issue is men are waking up & realizing women are nothing but trouble. Jesus was a bacheleor because he had the wisdom to know women are just nuts.,,,

  57. Geary says:

    I have asked out enough women in my time. Here is an idea ladies: When a man asks you out you could do something incredibly outlandish like saying “YES.” Ever thought of that? Quit using your bibles as a shield to protect you when the thought of dating doesn’t conform to your vision of morality. I asked you out for coffee, not coffee followed by my place where our clothes would fly off. I didn’t propose. We wouldn’t be instant boyfriend/girlfriend. It’s just coffee and conversation. Further dates would be determined after that. Reciprocate for the love of God!!!

    • Robert says:

      Amen!! Amen!! and again I say Amen!

    • Michael Dean says:

      Jason, Geary and Scott,

      Don’t you realize that the way you are responding in these comments are the very reason that women might not be saying yes to you? It might be time for an attitude adjustment.

      • Mickey says:


        Are you suggesting that when all women do is gripe about how sorry they claim men to be, that we should just stand there and take it?

        • Brandon says:

          I don’t really care about what some women have to say about men on the internet, since 1. What they’re saying doesn’t apply to me and when it does it’s no big deal, 2. I’m confident in myself and know what I want and am not afraid to work for it and am therefore open to alternate philosophies or methods to incorporate into optimizing my pursuit and how to best go about doing that, and 3. There’s a reason people (guys or girls) hang out on internet message boards or online dating and 99% of the time it’s because they’re a loser who can’t hang in real life.

          No, don’t “just stand there and take it.” Just stop listening and go out and do the work to get what you want and don’t worry so much about what others may say or think. Just focus on you. What you want. What you’re doing. What you can do better at.

          For what it’s worth, one way of thinking that really turned things around for me was when I began to think of myself as a recruiter, instead of an applicant. I just began to carry myself differently and realize I had something to offer and everyone was a potential candidate. Asking myself how I can convince some one to join my team, what am I recruiting for, why would some one be interested or join my team, why would I want them on my team, etc.

          Hope that helps and good luck to you. I’ve been frustrated too from all the negative reinforcement that goes around, but the only way out is choosing to do hard work and build your skillset.

          • Michael Dean says:

            While I disagree with the”loser” comment, I think knowing who you are at a deeper level is absolutely important! Thanks for your contribution to the discussion!


        • Geary says:

          Without a doubt my attitude needs to change and has been changing. The fact still remains that the women who complain about being single are often the same ones who turn down the offers that come their way. Ladies, if you want a man in your life, one of the things you have to do is to say “YES” when one asks you out. I for one have set my standards higher. I no longer look for women, Christian or otherwise, at church. On-line dating and other social events have been much more fruitful. At church I look around and lament what is in most cases a waste of womanhood.

        • Michael Dean says:

          Hi Micky,

          I hope all is well. And thank you for continuing the conversation.

          I am suggesting that you take it. What is the point in starting a fight over it. Clearly you are not attracted to those particular woman, so there is no reason to engage further wight them. I have a hard time believing that “all women” are griping and complaining, I clearly do not know your context however. The whole point of the article was to encourage men out of their comfort zones and to not over spiritualize the process of dating. My recommendation for the guys above is to stop ranting about women and start working on themselves. Find an older man who can speak into your life, take a personal inventory, change something in your life so that it does not remain the same. Look for a mentor who has a life that you would like to model after.

          Just some suggestions.


          • Bubba says:

            Dang! I have been getting these comment emails for a good while now. Dating is definitely a tough struggle for some of us. Some times you just have to sit back and listen to a good song.

          • Michael Dean says:

            Well Played Bubba!

          • Mickey says:

            Hi Michael.

            I understand where your coming from, plus your perspective of having found the right person fairly young. For me, however, as I will be 50 (God Willing) in just a few months, I have seen too much man-hating and male bashing to turn the other cheek one more time.

            Standing there and taking it just isn’t an option. You’re right that starting a fight is not an option either, so I just walk away from the whole thing. When a large majority of women tend to see men as the enemy, there isn’t much point in trying to prove otherwise when most women believe the worst of men to begin with. Sorry.

  58. Rockin R says:

    Here has been my experience with women.

    They say they don’t want me, (Christian or otherwise) but yet when they reject me; they don’t seem to have a problem with looking my way and smiling and pretending as if they know me. When I have asked woman out; they don’t want me, but they seem to have no problem using my asking them out as “bragging rights” so they boast to all of their friends that, “Oh WOW! Can you believe that he asked me out?” Yet, they won’t bother putting forth the time and effort to actually “try” to have a relationship with me. Either that or else they will pretend they like me only until they see a “better” guy and then I’m dropped that very instant.

    • Michael Dean says:

      Rockin R

      Im so sorry that has been your experience. I had some similar experiences and it is so incredibly hard! Do your best to brush it off and trust that you are a good man! The fact that you were so honest already tells me that.


      • Rockin R says:

        Thanks Michael for the kind words. I’ll do my best. I just hate going to Church and other places all by myself (My mom is the only other woman who goes with me since I am unable to drive) and seeing all these guys and gals holding hands and enjoying each other’s company. I can’t understand why the only woman who will talk to me are either A. Girls with boyfriends or B. Girls with husbands.

  59. Lena says:

    It is really a shame. I prefer dating christian men because I am a christian female. Here at a very preppy waspy area of NYC there are many guys dating white middle class women only. Girls of minority descent (very beautiful and educated latinas, African-Americans, and Asians) are not being asked out by educated christian men. I think there is way to much racism in churches still. Im not sure how people with preferences even call themselves children of God.

    I feel like moving onto non-christians. I do not think it is a good idea. I just don’t think I should wait around for a guy to see me as equal to a white woman (I even have blue eyes I’m just a bit tanned naturally). I’m very outgoing. I find it easier to date non-christians because they seem more interested in me rather than my bank account. Maybe not everyone is destined to marry a christian man or maybe there are no christian men out there anymore. Most of them are dating or married (to specific economic class and race of women) where I attend.

    I wish you all courage and a great life in Christ! I refuse to be bitter even though racism still prevails.

    • Eric says:

      I am very sad to hear your story. Maybe try going to a different church. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE of racism in churches.

      You can also ask your guy friends about this issue. Ask them why they think no Christian men are asking you out.

      Speaking from experience. I will say a good 80% of the girls in my old church ends up dating non-Christians. Some already got married to them.

      Originally I am confused, but now it all makes sense. My old church is kind of small, specially for the 20-35 age group. There was a Christian couple that dated when they were younger. They broke up and the guy left the Church. It was big news.

      So people are worried that if a date did not work out, it might become big news for the church. I guess people (men and women) don’t want to bring trouble and damage to the church, so they instead elect to date outside.

      When people date in a small church, it isn’t just about them two. The whole church is involved because everyone know each other and their parents too well.

      • Eric says:

        I guess what I am trying to say is:

        Relatively, it is much easier for a guy to meet girl outside of church. There is no strings attached. This girl does not know any of his church friends or church family members. So if the date doesn’t work out who cares.

        Same thing for the Christian girls. It is just so much easier because there are no string attached.

        There are many other reasons why it is so difficult for Christian guys and girls to come together. However all these “strings attached” and “church networking” was a heavy burden on Christian dating, at least in my old church.

  60. Joel says:

    I do agree with much of this article and think that ambiguous semi-dating relationships are almost . Josh Harris is in part to blame. I try to avoid this – I may ask a girl to group things and stuff a little at first to make sure I like her personality past the initial attraction, but I will ask her out within a few weeks at most (if not, I’ll relate to her like any other friend).

    I think the other side to it, though, is that sometimes women are too particular in turning someone down. Unless you feel really uncomfortable or unsafe with him or have absolutely zero attraction, I think you should probably go out with a guy even if he’s a little awkward in the way he asks you out or you’ve never thought of him that way or you have a crush on someone else. I don’t at all want to sound like the bitter “red pill” types in this thread, but it does seem like sometimes girls put so much importance on a date that they need to feel really certain about a guy before they go out with him. Once again, I blame Josh Harris (by which I really mean the entire culture around his way of thinking – he wasn’t the first or the last).

    (And yes, I know sometimes men expect too much too.)

    It can be hard for guys to put themselves out there, even more so for guys who don’t have much dating experience, which many Christian men don’t. The worst thing that happens is that you get a free dinner! And if you still can’t see yourself in a relationship after spending a little time with him, just politely tell him that before anything gets serious and go back to just being friends. If nothing else, going out with him once or twice when it doesn’t work out could give him more confidence with women (maybe with your single friends?) in the future.

  61. john (the beloved) says:

    Very interesting.
    I don’t know where to begin. However, I have a few observations:
    1. Both the men and the women are nervous when it comes to matters of the heart. Therefore, sisters, understand that the brother’s approach may not be perfect, so, even if you’re going to say no, be thoughtful about it.
    2. It is better to say a polite “No” to a brother rather than to ignore him entirely. I had an experience with a lady I was interested in. She did not even acknowledge my interest in her. I would have preferred a response either way.
    3. Sisters, don’t be too quick to turn down a suitor. Yep, I know how easy it is to think that you’re all that and that a “better guy” will come along. Common sense dictates that a bird in hand is worth two in the trees. Moreover, going out with a brother does not mean you are marrying him the next day. You’re only getting to know him. As long as Christ is put at the center of the dating/meeting, you’ve got nothing to lose.
    4. Sisters, realize that it is never wrong to be nice and courteous. It takes quite a lot for a brother to ask a sister out, particularly at his church where everyone knows him. Even if you think you’re not interested in him, don’t crush him with your harsh response. Brothers talk too. If you are mean to one, chances are the one you are interested in might not even approach you, for fear of being similarly crushed.
    5. Sisters, know that no matter what you think, you need us men just as much as we need you. Marriage is a blessing for both, not only for the guys. In Christ, neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man. Maybe you should approach it like a job: you need the job to pay your bills; the job needs you to meet its organizational goals. A symbiotic relationship.
    6. Brothers really need to man up indeed. You are the leader in the male-female relationship, no matter what feminism or culture says. Thus, you must approach; you must explicitly say what your intentions are; you must remain consistent, even when the woman does not seem to act in ways compatible to your intentions.
    7. Brothers should also strive to be fully grown men. Like Jesus, brothers need to seek to mature physically (get in shape, bro; protruding bellies are not attractive); mentally (get education/marketable skills); socially (learn how to act in different situations); and spiritually (know God on a one to one basis). Jesus was this, as a fully grown man. According to Luke 2:52, Jesus grew in wisdom (marketable skills/education), and stature (physical growth), and in favor with God (spiritual development) and man (social maturity).
    8. Brothers, understand that not having a job disqualifies you from seeking a wife. Seriously. Read it yourself: 1 Timothy 5:8. If you don;t have a good job then your focus should be to find one first before seeking a wife. If you can’t find a good job, then start one. Without making a solid contribution to society and being paid for your efforts, your confidence in yourself will be adversely affected, and this will surely spill over into your relationships with a woman. To take it a step further, you need to know your life calling before you can make an intelligent choice of a spouse. How else can you select a “help meet” if you don’t even have an idea of the job to be done? A clear direction of what God has called you to do on earth will simplify which woman is right for you, and which is not, so that you don’t run after every “attractive” woman who is ultimately useless for your God-given purpose.
    9. Brothers, do not hesitate to drop a so-called sister who does not accept or unwilling to adapt to your leadership. Feminism is actually a form of rebellion against God’s clear standards, and God hates rebellion, equating it with witchcraft (see 1 Samuel 15:23). Don’t pledge an undying love to witches, or allow a witch to become the mother of your children. It won’t end well.
    10. For both brothers/sisters, let us hold our heads high, whatever our lots might be as far as marriage is concerned. There is much more to do for His kingdom other than getting married.

    “For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:12

    • SingleLady says:

      Re: 9 that comment has got to be one of the misogynistic things I had ever read! You are distorting scriptures here as a way to promote your own anti woman agenda! This is why some Christian men don’t date because no woman wants a man who is an overbearing jerk who hates women! Go ahead and ban me if you want but you know it’s the truth!

      • john (the beloved) says:

        Misogynistic? Are you serious?
        When a woman insists that she wants to be “strong and independent”, what are you supposed to do? Argue with her and make her less “independent”?
        I don’t think so. You should allow that woman to become FULLY independent by getting out of her way, and out of her life. Let her go find a man who who will be at her every beck and call. That is not misogyny; that is practicality. A whole lot of women who profess to be Christians today have no idea what it means to be Christians. They still have their foolish, arrogant attitudes brought in from their worldly days, and they expect Christian men to put up with such attitudes. It’s not going to work. A real manly man will not tolerate even a hint of feminism in his home.

  62. Grant says:

    Nice article. But you got it all wrong. It’s the girls that need to “man up” as they are the ones who insist on only doing things in groups and if you dare approach them to ask them out they go behind your back & tell the pastor you “made her uncomfortable”. At least that’s the way it is at my church. Clearly they are the ones not interested in dating not the guys. Apparently “God told them not to date”. Interesting God only ever tells girls that he never seems to tell guys that. So yeah “manning up” doesn’t mean much if they won’t do the same. Has anybody else had this same experience?

    • Rockin R says:

      I’ve had the same experience Grant. In fact, one girl I had a crush on told me, “I can’t date you because I didn’t get permission from God to do so. However, when she met someone else to “get me off her back” The “permission” that God needed to give her wasn’t even needed. When she met that other guy, God never even came up as a subject which made me so angry. This girl didn’t go to a pastor behind my back, but she knew that I was talking to a counselor because I was having “issues” of a different kind unrelated. She told him that I was “making her uncomfortable” and then my counselor had to set up an appointment to “talk to me” about it. He told me he wasn’t on anyone’s side and he just wanted us to talk. Not on anyone’s side, huh? You can’t fool me. He agreed with her that I was causing her “distress” even though he always tells me to my face that, “He doesn’t take sides. what a load of crap.

    • Geary says:

      I once got the “made her feel uncomfortable” thing too, but I DID NOT EVEN ASK HER OUT!!! My friend, walk away from dating women at Church. Walk away. Get on the dating websites. Those women want to date men and they cannot complain that you were trying something with them. If they do complain; why are they on a dating website? It is also nearly certain that the woman on the computer does not go to your Church and if she does, you know that you should ignore her anyway. Since she does not go to your church, this means that she is not encumbered by her friends otherwise known as her dating prevention committee. Ladies, get on the dating websites. The things that are described in these posts are happening to the men in your church and are no small part of the reason why the guy beside you isn’t asking you out. Ask him out yourself. Get yourselves out there. Make yourselves available. Reciprocate!!!

      • SingleLady says:

        So you’advocate dating non-Christian women? What about what it says in Scripture re not being unequally yoked. If a person is making someone uncomfortable, maybe they ought to stop doing the thing that’s causing the discomfort instead of using this as an excuse to go out and do what you really want to do…go out with a non-Christian who more than likely puts out!

        • Geary says:

          What I really want to do is go out with a woman who wants to date. Christian women tend to use the Bible as a shield. The moral codes women see in the Bible prevent them from dating. Go ahead, be proud of being single using every justification you read in the Bible and that you get from your friends. You are going to wake up one morning alone with no kids and wondering what happened and why. Hopefully you will be able to find some biblical justification for your situation. Change your user name to “Old Maid” to reflect your new reality.

          • Gurilio says:

            I know that its hard-I am almost 25 years old, and I have maybe gone out on 1 or 2 dates (none in the six years of college). I feel like we just have to be patient and have faith that God will provide. God will provide us all with “The One” someday when the timing is right-I am positive we will know when that is happening. We just have to be in line with God’s will (easy thing to say but much harder thing to do). Here is a passage that I have recently read through:

            James 1: 22-25 (Listening and Doing)
            “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks inently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-he will be blessed in what he does.”

            Have patience, brother, and God will certainly bless you!

          • Rockin R says:

            I hate it that I am now 27 and I am still single and no girl wants to date me. I wish single woman would want to date me and stop trying to “find a better man” for themselves.

          • Gurilio (male) says:

            I think its cool that there are many brothers going through the same thing. I was thinking about it…we are all one family in Christ going through similar situations. There is always someone going through the same thing around you. Whether it be with girls (which are impossible to understand! :)-at least from my perspective). I knew someone who solely focused on looking for a husband…I found that extremely unattractive because I felt that she lost sight of the one thing that is most important-God.

            Personally, I try (honestly I go back and forth on this) to focus solely on God because when I do, I am not worrying about whether I can find a Christian female that will go on a date with me or anything else that is going on and just try to focus on the people that God wants me to meet. When I pray and stay focused on God, I am much happier-and the girl that I will eventually start dating will find that attractive too! Here is a passage that just came to me (I might have mentioned it in one of my past posts):

            Matthew 6:25-27 (Do not Worry)
            “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, why you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life.”

            I will be praying for you Rockin R and Geary!

  63. ZP says:

    I will keep all of those frustrated men in prayer. I completely understand the feeling of being rejected (I didn’t get a single date for a major high school dance until my SENIOR year…I think I set a record for most times rejected, haha).

    Jokes aside, as a guy you sometimes just have to keep trying. It stinks and it hurts, but if God put that desire in your heart to meet someone and marry her, then don’t ignore it. I honestly tried online dating and after years of rejection I met someone! We’re getting married very soon and I couldn’t be happier! People kept telling me that I would have to settle and be OK with dating a woman who’s not a virgin or already has a kid since that’s the “culture.” Needless to say I no longer associate with those people. I had my share of standards (which weren’t too many) and a woman had to appreciate my quirks (I’m a Type A personality who loves to talk) and had some edges to sharpen. Hey, we men are not perfect!

    Believe it or not, the type of woman you’re looking for who loves the Lord and will give you a chance is out there. If nothing else, you learn more about yourself and what you want from these dates. Women do want a man who takes charge, is honest, and is at least trying to improve himself each and every day. I have my moments, no doubt, but the right kind of woman will be patient with you. She’s inspired me to do so much more every day that I cannot imagine myself with anyone else.

    For those of you who are attending churches with supposedly “superficial” women, then find another church! From what I’m reading, some of these churches shouldn’t even be on your “to attend” list in the future. Again, I’m also speaking from experience as I spent the past year-plus finding the right church (and found it, at least for now). Prayer and action have to go together. If you want to be that guy who sweeps a woman off her feet, then go for it! Don’t let a few dates discourage you. I mean, look at George Clooney….how long did it take THAT guy to find “the One”? Even guys like him have a tough time in the dating field.

    Take a closer look at yourself, pray for wisdom you find the right kind of woman (or guy) and keep trying. It’s not over if you don’t want it to be.

    Ladies, don’t give up on us guys. There are plenty of decent, handsome, clever, God-loving men out there who want to date you. I hope you all got something out of this post. May God Bless you.

  64. Rockin R says:

    I was reading something last night where a man asked if it was okay to spy on his girlfriend or wife for fear of her cheating and he was told that it was very wrong to do. However when a woman asked the same thing with the same fear, the responses were like this: “Yes, you should! “You’re smart” and “You go girl!” This is just so stupid. I mean, a guy is told not to spy on his girlfriend or wife because it is “wrong to do. Girls ,however, get the green light which is complete BS. I mean, why should the girl be able to do what the guy can’t? There’s no reason why guys can’t be given the “green light” Guys have every right to “spy on their girlfriend and woman. One of the big ones is because girls can be “stolen” from the guys by other men and the bad part about it, the girls will allow it by trying to say that their current guy isn’t “providing”for them which is nonsense along with many other reasons.

    • Eric says:

      I suggest you watch Andy Stanley’s sermon on “Trust”. Then you will realise that it is pointless to be suspicious with each other. In fact, confront your suspicions early before the relationship deteriorate so much that it can not be repaired.

      • Rockin R says:

        Eric, I agree that trust is important in any relationship, but it doesn’t deal with the issue of why women are allowed to do the very same things that would be considered wrong if men did them. it’s a little hypocritical, don’t you think? Think about it: Why would it be wrong if a man wanted to spy on his girlfriend/wife, but if it was reversed and the woman was the one doing the spying, why would it be acceptable? My opinion is that it has nothing to do with trust. It seems that women are taught that men are “players”, whether or not they really are. Also, a lot of times, men are painted in a negative light. Take commercials and real life for example: Men are painted as dumb and the women come in and “save the day” Make fun of me if you want, but that’s the way our society works today.

  65. Ryan says:

    Sounds like a lot of people need a swift kick in the pants.

    If you are a creepy man who makes women uncomfortable don’t blame it on women, get a hobby, meet some people, and stop being creepy.

    If you are a fat person, stop accusing people of being shallow, hit the gym, loose some weight, become healthy.

    If you are bitter, stop blaming other people for your bitterness, seek healing, go to counseling, be honest with yourself and others, and be full of joy.

    If you are a bitter, overweight, boring, creepy person, stop being surprised when you get rejected. You should be getting rejected. You aren’t dateable.

    There comes a point in time where one has to look in the mirror, take a personal inventory, and ask “Would I really want to date someone who wants to date me?” My guess is that for many people the answer would be yes despite the fact that it should be no.

    • Bubba says:

      Hey Dr. Phil… I just wanted to make sure this goes for creepy fat women too.

    • Melody says:

      I think those people need advice, but I wouldn’t give them yours.

      Guys – if people think you’re creepy, find out why! You may be hitting on ladies who are way too young for you. You might be asking inappropriate questions. You might be too needy, have bad hygiene, or just stare too much. These things are not what define you as a person, but they are what people see up front, and they do get you the creepy label. Sorry. Ask a close friend, who cares about you, to be blunt. When you clear away the creepy, I bet you’re the guy some girl is looking for. But even if you can’t figure out what makes you creepy, don’t despair. I know several guys I find revolting in both looks and personality and they have wives who adore them.

      Fat people – Hi, I too am over-weight and I’m engaged to an over-weight man. We’re both working on losing weight and getting healthy, but we’ve still got a ways to go. That didn’t stop us from finding each other and falling in love. I have two suggestions 1. Stop thinking that no one will ever want you because of your weight. It isn’t true. When I stopped freaking out about it, I started dating more. 2. Don’t hold other people to a standard you can’t live up to! I see so many over-weight people who don’t want their significant other to be over-weight. What? You want a shot, so give them a shot too!

      Bitter People – You may or may not need counseling. You might be fine if you pray and read your bible more, plug into a small group, and join in the singing at church. I can’t be close to God and be bitter at the same time – it’s probably true for you too. And even if letting go of the bitterness doesn’t get you a date – you’re still going to be happier and healthier for it.

      My advice to everyone – stop making excuses and try anyway. I never, never, never thought I could have the awesome relationship that I have right now. It’s every bit as magical as every Christian blogger has ever told you real relationships can never be. It never would have happened if I hadn’t gone on three years worth of awkward online dates and one truly ridiculous relationship. Good relationships are buried treasure, kids. They’re not waiting for you in clean glass cases, you’ve got to dig through the dirt.

    • Tina L says:

      this is pretty funny! LOL. well said. I am a Christian woman, pretty been told, attractive and both Christian and non Christian guys would ask me out and wanted a serious relationship but I couldn’t have one. I had to heal from some things. for one, I saw infidelity while growing up in my father so that scared me. and had two experiences one in college with an unbelieving man who tried to rape me after a study session and another time with a man who called himself a pastor to the youth I had to go to a therapist and heal. Men would approach me and I didn’t know how to trust and now that I am ready I struggle with this issue: as a Christian I know I cannot date nor marry unbelievers. they are nice to me and ask for my number, ask me on coffee dates. I have gone on coffee dates to a Christian coffee shop and don’t go past the second meeting or first because I know nothing will come out of it some have told me I am the woman they really been looking for and are serious about dating and marrying some even asked me if I wanted to bring my mom, sister or friend to the dates. these non christian men i have met thru friends, work, gym, etc . The Christian men I have met lately been the following: some have told me they are backsliden, one when I asked him if the date was still on so we could go to his church told me he didn’t want to hear from church and he sleeps in the services and asked me to go to his place which I didn’t to “cook for him and he on the date told me he had no job; he was I guess expecting sexual relatioship”, another one told me he is backsliden and has slept around and apologized to me when I told him I don’t do that and didn’t even pay for my coffee nor muffin! I was shocked. then I nicely suggested to him next time when he takes a girl out to please pay for her and he kept messaging me to give him a chance but I couldn’t do that again. one man who said was a Christian and got upset when I wouldn’t date him because he wanted me to be his third wife(he has been divorced two times!!!) and seemed had anger issues. I was scared just on the first date I went with him. and now a christian friend introduced me to two men one good looking Christian man buthe has never asked me for my number nor email still single. another man not so good looking and older but bought tickets for some event and invited close to 20 people and that I know didn’t ask about me so don’t know if he likes me or not. I find at times non Christian men to be polite, nice ,, kinder, respectful to me, manly, direct, they say they are looking for a nice, Christian wife. and pursue me but as a Christian I cannot date them. it’s hard…and Christian men don’t seem like at times have it together.not living a godly life and not treating right a Christian woman when they meet a good woman who loves Jesus, is college educated, volunteers, loves family, looking for a decent man, not into material things.. I am ready if it’s God’s will I know He is coming soon to meet someone who loves Him with his whole heart, is funny and fun to me, sweet, godly, treats others and myself with respect, responsible(hard working), interested in me what I think or have to say. I meet some Christian men who don’t ask me about my likes/dislikes/passions; some seem not to have manners nor care who I am. I couldn’t just be someone’s maid. I think one man wanted that, I have feelings and a brain too. The unbelieving men I have met have ranged in incomes and I didn’t care, from a humble man to a sportscarster in a tv station who followed me but I told him since the beginning I am a Christian and can’t be with a non Christian man. Thank you and God bless, may the Lord bring you His peace and love and for many your spouse if it’s in His perfect will..

  66. Rockin R says:

    I have been in one situation where I’m not really sure if the christian woman was to blame or not, but her parents would never let me see her and I don’t know if she agrees with them or not.

    A long time ago, I went to another church before the one I am currently going to now. I met this one girl who I will call “M” I got to know M and her parents at the church and we seemed to get along. I also tried to get to know M a lot as well. At first the parents didn’t seem to have a problem with it, but then as time went on, they began to get “uncomfortable” with me for whatever reason. Now, I treat women good and don’t disrespect them in any way. Anywhoo; one day, the parents let me go to their house and they wanted to go out and eat with me. I asked them if M could come to and the dad told me, “Sorry, but she has to go somewhere else. We went out to eat and then the dad dropped me off at home. Later on, the dad told me that he and his whole family had to go on a trip and they wouldn’t be back until the Sunday after they left. After they had left, I wrote M a message on facebook and told her to have a good time. The week went by and Sunday came, but she had not come to Church and neither did her family. I talked to her dad about it and he told me, “Well, we decided to stay until after tomorrow. Excuse me?! Tomorrow? What happened to today? I asked him that and he said that they were staying “just because” Oh really? Just because?! I’m sure you just magically decided that.

    Two weeks later, her dad told me that he was going to an airshow to watch and look at airplanes. He couldn’t bring his wife or daughters because he was going by himself. Well, he posts photos of the airshow and guess what; he didn’t go by himself. In a couple of the pictures, standing beside him was M and another one of his daughters. So, I’m beginning to think that this guy is purposing always lying to my face because he doesn’t want to see me with daughter. I asked his wife why he was doing this and why I couldn’t see M, but she wasn’t helpful which lead me to assume that she was in on this as well. He even went so far as to tell me that his daughter M had a boyfriend. When someone says they have a boyfriend, their facebook wall is usually plastered with photos of the “happy couple.” I looked on M’s facebook page, her mother and father’s facebook pages and in all of the pictures with M, there was not one single picture of her with a boy in them at all. Even if they were far apart, they would at least attempt to get some of his pictures in. Unless her parents or M herself can show me proof that she is “seeing someone,” I will not believe that she has a boyfriend because the parents, mostly the dad, has lied to me so much.

    So, I’ve tried to message M on her facebook and either she alone, or with the help of her dad keep blocking me. I finally just sent a message to her parents saying that, “I don’t know why you guys are lying to me and why you guys don’t want me to see M, but we used to be good friends.” I then told them in a nice sort of way that they need to get their “priorities straight.”

  67. Johnny says:

    The problem I see with these examples in both the article and the comments is that they’re anecdotal, and anecdotes don’t necessarily show actual trends. Realistically, we have more options for meeting more people than at any other time in history, both due to increases in population, as well as through advances in technology. Additionally, in the US, we have more opportunities in general than most of the rest of the world, and this also translates into more dating opportunities. I’d wager that we also have more options for finding a church that will meet our needs than probably at any other time in history. I’m feeling like John Stossel in his “Give Me a Break” segments. Perception is NOT reality.

    • Johnny says:

      As a caveat, I want to mention that the author may have a point in his thesis. Likewise, some of the commentators may have a point in the women turning them down when asked. My skepticism is aimed at the idea put forth by the subjects of the article who seem to lament a false narrative that there are no good, available Christian men out there, as well as the idea put forth by some of the commentators who seem to imply that single church women are basically all princesses who think no guy is good enough for them. I can certainly understand all of these individuals’ frustrations, but I think that someone holding this attitude is likely not treat dating like the numbers game that it is. It’s just like looking for a job and not applying to enough positions. Actually, I’d say the opportunities for finding a wife or girlfriend are my better than for finding a job in this economy, as most decent sized towns may have thousands of available women but very few available jobs. I can’t prove any of that, but it’s just a picture to prove a point.

      My problem is that I tend to only ask a woman out AFTER I’ve fallen in love with her. I don’t fall in love with five to 10 women a day, but maybe that’s how many I should be asking out. Then, getting rejected by the one I loved wouldn’t hurt so much, and statistically, I’m likely to have at least SOME success.. I get what the author’s saying about guys needing to date more and what the commentators are saying that church women are too picky to even say yes, but if we’re realistic, we’re probably simply not seeing all of the opportunities we have available to meet new people (even Christian) just by living in the time that we do and if we live in the western world, particularly the US, the place that we do.

  68. Peter says:

    Oh come off it. CHRISTIAN WOMEN DON’T EXIST ANYMORE!!! That is the answer you are deliberately not acknowledging. We Christian men have turned down a lot of non-Christians in our time. Because as one heartbroken girl once told me, our standards are “representative of that of the 40s!”

    Women don’t have the old-school class anymore. They just don’t. And our demands aren’t that shallow, despite what we are told:

    1. Christian
    2. Conservative
    3. ACTUALLY attractive. You don’t have to be a goddess by any means. But stop pretending your single friend is gorgeous. They’re not.
    4. Take an interest in sports.
    5. No tattoos.
    6. And absolutely no sex before marriage whatsoever.
    7. Wants to spend time at home rather than bar hop/party.

    Most “Christian” women break 5, 6, and 7 frequently. I just got dumped after a year-long relationship with a girl because I didn’t make a physical move on her.

    I’ve yet to go to a church where I wasn’t the only young person in attendance. You’re telling me that it’s my responsibility to jump from church to church, or move out-of-state completely in a lot of cases, just to find a church with a thriving singles population??? Well, let me grab the mythical magic money that this author clearly has and I’ll go ahead and do just that.

    Where do you meet these “Christian” women aside from the bars, or the parties, or the clubs, hmmm? What if you have ZERO friends to introduce you to anybody?

    The reality is that this article is so naive. And Christian men are vastly more mature than the average woman is willing to tolerant. We’re sooooooooooooooo “boring”.

    • Michael Dean says:

      Wow, Peter, you are way off my friend. I’d love to hear more about the context of where you are coming from. From what you are saying you seem to be more interested in the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it.


    • Rockin R says:

      you know, as much as I’m probably going to get slack for saying this, I think you are right. I just met a girl at Church who I thought was a Christian and I was interested in her. So, I went to see if she has a facebook; well, when I found her facebook, about half of her pictures were of her in a bar. Why would they let a person from a bar take part in helping with the offering? that’s messed up. Also, there’s another girl who is suppose to be Christian who went to a restaurant with some of her friends and they had alcohol there? Either they: A. Think Christians are okay to drink or B. Call themselves Christians at church so they will be accepted and find a mate who they can “destroy” with themselves So disappointing!

      • Michael Dean says:

        Rockin R. I spent time in a bar recently, does that exclude me from taking or serving communion? Your viewpoint is so damaging to yourself and to whoever you might end up with in the future that I would caution you to take a close look at what Jesus had to say about the way we should treat people and not focus on what your church has taught you.


        • Rockin R says:

          Michael. First, thanks for responding and I’m not sure if you responded to my other comments, but I’ll deal with the one we are on.

          As to your point about bars, I do not think someone who goes to bars should be kept from communion. If you say you are a Christian, but still go to bars whenever Church gets out or you are bored, or if you want to go there to find a “mate” that’s not a good sign. For me, I’d rather have a girl who didn’t go to or want to hang out at bars at all. Non Christians are the ones who usually go out to bars and as far as I’m concerned; if a person goes to a bar where “anything” goes, they are asking for trouble. Nothing good can come from bars. I think if a person goes to a bar; that means (A) you go there to show off your body, this can be applied very heavily for women who enjoy “things” such as pole dancing. (B) Getting very drunk for one reason or another. A drunk person is not a type of person I, nor I think you would want to hang around, especially when things get “out of hand” Maybe there are times when nothing of this sort happens at a bar, but I’m pretty sure it happens 99.9% of the time.

    • Maria says:

      Peter: Maybe you should become Muslim if you want to keep women on lockdown and be so domineering. No true Christian man has the sour attitude you have. Highly unattractive.

  69. Geary says:

    The responses to this article seem to beg the following question: Will there be an upcoming article called “Stop Praying. Start Accepting. Christian Women Need To Woman Up And Date.” ?

    • Rockin R says:

      It would be nice, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Even if it does happen though, I’m pretty sure a lot(not all) woman would be in an uproar. I’ve been alive long enough to see that woman are able to do things that men aren’t able to do. Take for instance when I came across a question that a man asked about spying on his girlfriend/wife because he’s afraid that she’s not being “faithful” or just not being honest about something. It is wrong for a man to want to spy. Now let’s look at the same example except with a woman asking about if she should “spy” on her boyfriend/husband. Nearly 99.9% of all the answers were supporting the woman’s “right” to spy on her boyfriend/husband. Now, please tell me why a woman has the “right” or permission to spy and the man does not? Isn’t that a little odd? It also seems very strange how when women are “called” on it, they get all defensive, but men shouldn’t get defensive if the same thing happens. I tell you, it’s just not right.

    • Melody says:

      We can’t know, men would have to start asking ladies out first ;)

  70. Eric says:

    I am a bit late to the party, but let me give my insight on this. (31 years old male here btw.) You guys should watch Louie Giglio’s series on dating “I’m Just Not Into You”. It really changed my prospective on the whole thing.

    Here is part 1:

    At the end it comes down to:

    “You Life Story with Christ” vs an “earthly love story”

    Before you even start dating, think about the story that God intended for your life. I know there is a lot of prayers and guess work at this. But what do you think he has call you to do?

    For example, you feel that God calls you to go serve food to the poor and homeless every Tuesday evening. And so you go do that, and really enjoyed it.

    One day you meet this Christian girl who you enjoyed talking to. And she volunteers a lot for her church. She teaches Sunday school classes and is part of her church’s music team.

    But you eventually find out she really hates bugs. And she is a clean freak.

    If you start dating her, it should be obvious that she will feel disgusted by your volunteer work to help the poor. She will ask you to serve God in other ways. Maybe you should play the piano for the music team, for example.

    Ask yourself: Do you think this girl is the wife, the flesh of your flesh, that God created for you?

    There is a chance of course. But most likely not.

    Now I am not saying the girl is wrong or evil. In fact she is a holy woman in her own right. But her “Life Story with God” (read again, her story) is vastly different from yours (serving the homeless). Your two life stories are in direct conflict with each other.

    So, what does that have to do with starting a date? Everything.

    If you feel that God calls you to feed the homeless, keep doing that. And avoid girls who are in direct conflict with that. And as you help the homeless, (God willing) you will hopefully meet a girl who shares the same calling as you do.

    You want to feed the homeless? Well guess what so does this girl here! She is not afraid to get dirty. She loves bugs. etc.

    And when two people whose “Life Story with God” matches each other, and then come together in union, it is (once again, God willing) most likely going to be a beautiful story.

    So pray to God, and ask him how he wants you to serve the world. And after this, try to meet girls along the same path as you.


    Matthew 6:33 (English Standard Version)

    33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

    • Eric says:

      And never sacrifice your “Life Story with Christ” for an “earthly love story”. It would seem good in the short term, but in the long term it aren’t worth it. This also applies to other earthly things in life, like your job, but let’s focus on relationships here.

      Any “earthly love story”, no matter how romantic, will certainly pass away in 200 years (neither you or your wife will be alive in 200 years).

      Your “Life Story with Christ” will last for all eternity. And yes that will include the part where you served the homeless. And your reward will be in heaven.

      Make sure we have our priorities straight. For:

      Matthew 25:40
      English Standard Version (ESV)
      40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

      Luke 12:20-21
      English Standard Version (ESV)
      20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”

      • Eric says:

        Forgot to mention the “bad ending”

        Let’s say you start dating that girl from that “feed the homeless” group. 2 months later you two broke up. What do you do? Do you stop going and stop talking to her?


        Remember, she is your sister in Christ FIRST AND FOREMOST. In fact between you two, the relationship of brotherhood and sisterhood in Christ should triumph over the relationship as a couple.


        Because your and her “Life Story with Christ” must triumph over that “earthly love story”.

      • Eric says:

        Forgot to mention the “bad ending”

        Let’s say you start dating that girl from that “feed the homeless” group. 2 months later you two broke up. What do you do? Do you stop going to help the poor and stop talking to her?


        Remember, she is your sister in Christ FIRST AND FOREMOST. In fact between you two, the relationship of brotherhood and sisterhood in Christ should triumph over the relationship as a couple.


        Because your and her “Life Story with Christ” must triumph over that “earthly love story”.

        Keep serving the poor. Keep talking and cooperating with her in helping the homeless. Keep encouraging each other.

        She is your Sister in Christ no matter what happened in the past and what will happen in the future. If you accept this, it takes a lot of pressure off your date.

        • Eric says:

          Allow me to say one more thing:

          Be careful of the bait you choose to fish with.

          Men, if you fish with your money (treat her to $200 dinners every week, pay for all her stuff), guess what type of women you will end up getting? Gold diggers!

          Money by itself is not a sin. And it is not wrong to be wealthy. But we have to be very careful in how we use our money, as many of these uses are quite sinful (buying drugs, for example). Fishing with money will land you women with unhealthy and non-Christian values (materialistic and greedy, for example).

          Women, do not fish with your bodies. You do not want to date any men that are only after your body. Do not lead them on, and later tell them you cannot provide them with what they are seeking (your body before marriage). Or you risk getting so emotionally attached that you end up giving your body away to him, just to keep the relationship going.

          Throw out those SUPER mini skirt from your collection and never buy these again. And throw away those ultra thin T-shirts that shows what’s underneath when they get wet (yes I have seen Christian girls wear those). Do not wear any clothing that’s highly revealing of your body.

          If you wear these clothing, you are sending a clear message to all the men you meet: You are an object, and that’s all your are worth. Because you are so un-confident of your true self, you decided that you need to show off your body in a “desperate” attempt to attract guys.

          Do not do this. You know you are worth SO MUCH more to God and your future husband.

          I am not saying you should cover your whole self up. And there is nothing wrong with looking modestly of course. But girls you know what I am talking about. We all know some clothings are highly inappropriate. Reserve your bodies for your future husband. No one else need to see more of you than necessary.

          • Eric says:

            One more secret for the women:

            If you wear those highly revealing clothing, you risk turning true Christian guys away.

            It certainly turned me away. In Church, I can’t even look at girls in those super mini skirts. I literally have to turn my head to look elsewhere. Girls like these cause me to stumble and have lustful thoughts, which means in my mind and soul I committed adultery with them (thanks a lot, my sisters in Christ).

            I am not being judgmental here. I am simply saying a stranger girl dress in revealing clothing will turn me away. I am sorry I cannot look at a girl in super mini skirts and not get lustful thoughts, no matter how fast I TRY to shut the thought down. I am not Jesus.

            So pretty please for the health of yourself and us Christian guys, stop wearing those clothing to church. And do not wear them elsewhere.

          • Eric says:

            From what I have read, here is the biggest question many guys here as asking.


            Guys please listen to me. I have been there. I have done that. And it just led me to nothing but misery. I end up doing many evil things (while fulling Christian). I start doing tons of research online about courting girls. I start changing myself in various ways. I started reading books like “The Game”.

            Then I moved on and started picking up girls in various places. At that point I was desperate and I couldn’t care less if the girl is Christian or not. My original plan was the get dates, but not to have sex with the girls I date. But trust me, everything was going down hill in my Christian life. I was dating girls just like a pick up artist. Get their number. Call them out for dinner. etc

            God is nowhere involved and I was taking everything into my own hands. So we all know where I will eventually end up.

            But God was merciful and stopped me just in time (before I had sex with anyone), after my interaction with a certain girl.

            I was using my usual pick up artist tricks on her. She turns out to be a Christian girl, and I OFFENDED her so much that I quit the whole thing in shock. It wasn’t fun. And I hasn’t been back to the pick up game since. She was probably just shocked as I was. Who would have imagined a self-proclaimed Christian guy would date her just like a pick up artist, who wants nothing but a one night stand?

            Now, there are some positives that came with all of this. I am now MUCH more confident in talking with any girl. I groom myself better. I work out more. I read the news and magazines (mostly online) so I can talk to girls about various topics. In effect I became a more desirable guy.

            And there is nothing wrong with self improvement. God does want us to become the best that we can be.

            However my MOTIVATIONS were all wrong. I improve myself not for God. I improve myself to get a girl.

            The whole thing was filled with evil. Guys in successful relationships are objects of my jealousy and envy. And this extends even to my brothers in Christ. As I improve myself, I notice that many other people around me are better. If I see some fat dude dating a hot girl, I start judging him and say to myself “Certainly I am better than this guy. So I must get a girl at least that hot, or more.”

            And girls were just commodities, The way I saw it, each girl have a “Dating Price”. So once I made enough “Dating Credit” I can date anyone. I am improving myself (looks, read the news, learn to dance) to gain these “Dating Credit” to BUY the girls I want.

            Read again: BUY the girls I want. What about the wife that God made just for me? WHO CARES ABOUT HER? She might not even exist and life was short.

            Because let’s be fair! I worked so hard to improve myself in all aspects. I DESERVE this hot girl. I PAID for her. She is a PRODUCT. She is a COMMODITY. I don’t want to serve her or love her. Why? Because without my “Dating Credit”, this girl probably won’t even look at me. Girls are so superficial anyways. So now that I “successfully” improved myself, it is my turn to turn the table on all the girls who rejected me in the past. They rejected my original self? So I shall reject their interior and only care about how hot they are.

            “Revenge” is sweet, isn’t it?

            That’s the problem when, at that point in my life, my biggest question was:


            Listen guys because here is the SADDEST part.

            Let’s say one day you answered the above question. You improve yourself so much that you can get pretty much any girl you want. Now you make $1 million a year. Now you have the nice car. Now you have 6 pack. Now you knows the whole encyclopedia. Now you can make any girl laugh. etc etc. Trust me, you will end up being EVIL. Because you viewed girls as superficial, and all they care about are all these.

            Answer this: Can you bring yourself to love someone who you honestly view as superficial? Can you bring yourself to love a commodity? Probably not. So what’s the point?

            The point of Christian life is NOT about getting a hot girlfriend or wife. The point of Christian life IS serving the Lord and be his ambassadors in this world.

            It might be true that Christian dating is hard in the 21st century. For some of us, that dream of a Christian family might never be fulfilled. That’s the challenge that God gave to this generation, to all of us. But remember! God put different challenges to each different generation of Christians.

            Back in the days of the First Church, Christians were often persecuted and executed. They had to secretly worship in people’s houses, and they risk getting killed everyday. That’s the yoke God has put onto them.

            And here we are worrying about NOT GETTING A HOT WIFE? Brothers please! Focus on what’s important. Serve the Lord. Let us seek first the kingdom of God. Tell people about Jesus. No other goal is more important than this.

            Now, you should definitely improve yourself. But you should improve yourself for God. How can God make use of your improvements?

            You make $1 million a year? Donate 10% of it to church.

            You have a nice car? Humbly tell your life struggles to other Christians, and help them and encourage them to succeed in their careers. And remind them that everything we got came from God, and so we should make use of the things God entrusted to us to further his kingdom.

            You have 6 pack? Help other Christian guys excise, for when we take care of our bodies we honor God. Tell them to use their bodies for good, not evil. Get some church sports events going.

            You know a lot? Then lead bible study classes and small group.

            You can make anyone laugh? Then greet new comers to your church so they are comfortable.

            And if God decides to send a wife to you along the way, PRAISE THE LORD! Let us all rejoice with you. Let none of us feel jealous and envy toward each other (like I once did). And let us view Christian women as our beloved sisters in Christ, not commodities that we have to earn “Dating Credits” to buy.

            And once we put all of our focus on what’s important (furthering the kingdom of God), all other things are no longer must have. They are now bonuses. If we get them PRAISE THE LORD. If not its fine, because our treasures are in heaven. It is better to receive our eternal rewards in heaven, than receiving our rewards on earth which will fade away.

  71. sal benetiz says:

    Wow. I don’t know who the guys you were talking to Ruth, but wow. I’m confused. Back in my day, we use to just ask a girl out. Plain and simple. Let’s go have some coffee. No big deal. And were talking about Christians here. And just to let you know, I am one who is NOT shy about asking Christian women out. The problem, In my opinion is that, the church tells women that they are to look for a Man of God. A Godly man. So, they in turn, look for a man like Christ, and that will never happen because Christ is Perfect. Were not. So somehow, in their mind if the guy is off just a little bit, it’s all over. He’s not spiritual enough, doesn’t pray enough, doesn’t lead enough, doesn’t give me flowers or cards all the time. He doesn’t call me enough. Oh boy, look out. I guess he’s no good. The problem is that we are all sinners. And you women, who go around thinking your better than the average guy, guess what, your not. Your not a Ruth in the bible, if you were you would have a heart of gold and quit being critical of every tiny little thing. Oh oh, look at the shirt he’s wearing, it’s got dark blue in it, I can’t go out with him now. And these things are true. Then they get mad and go home crying asking the lord to send them the right man. How do you know the lord already hasn’t, numerous times. I know this, because I have dated non-Christian women in the past who would love to go out and have a cup of coffee with me at the blink of an eye, so to speak. And this it so TRUE!!! Yet, I can’t find one, 1 Christian women who would be willing to hang out with me, without finding some fault and deciding she can’t go out with me any more. Satan has destroyed and blinded women’s eyes! Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of immature men out there who just want to play around, but guess what, I’m not one of them. Lord, Please open their eyes!!!!!!

  72. sal benetiz says:

    This is just what I have experienced. It may not happen to a lot of guys, but for some reason this has happened to me far to many times. Maybe I need to write a book on my experiences, so people can get a view from the Male side of things as well.

  73. Mickey says:

    I happen to have stumbled across an article written over 20 years ago which addresses many of the issues we’ve been discussing here. Below is the address:

    I think you will find it quite illuminating.

  74. Melody says:

    Such a good article! I know older folks in church are baffled by why their children and grandchildren are getting married just as late as the secular world – this is it.

    I’ve known a number of guys who seemed like they were into me and yet…
    I guess when you’ve only got one shot at dating (Thanks Joshua) you don’t take a lot of risks.

    And yet…that’s how I found the right person. How he found me. We took a risk. We got coffee.
    Of course, on the other hand, you have lots ladies believing they have to be completely passive.
    I wasn’t. He was about to back out – I didn’t understand why, I knew he liked me, so I talked him back into it!
    He’s pretty glad I didn’t just sit back and figure the right guy would never be nervous – so am I!

    • Rockin R says:

      Wow! Great story. I wish a lot more women were like you and would ask the guy out rather then just waiting for them to get asked out by the guy. I just wish women who might be interested in dating me would take steps to let me know instead of just relying on me to do everything. Of course, when I do the “asking” I always get rejected.

      • Melody says:

        Don’t get me wrong, he asked me out. He just got nerves because he misread a few things (understandably so given his past experiences). Soooo, I just told him that if nothing else we were going to talk and have a great time – and we’ve been doing that ever since.

        • Rockin R says:

          Yes, but even so; a lot of guys are very nervous about asking the girl out and it’s not their fault, they are just shy and sadly, a lot of girls are “turned off” by that when there is no reason to be. I know the law where the man has to be the one who asks the girl out, but sometimes the guy doesn’t wish to because: A. He is shy or B. He’s been rejected too many times and doesn’t want to get hurt.

          • Melody says:

            A guy who doesn’t wish to ask a girl out is a guy who does not wish to date.

            Dating is rejection. You reject people. People reject you. Both are awful.

            Even if she says yes, coffee could lead to rejection or another date. Another date could lead to a relationship or a not-interested. A relationship could lead to a proposal or this-isn’t-working.

            I learned early on to stop worrying about being rejected. Most relationships wouldn’t work. Getting rejected is always a step towards finding the one that will.

          • Rockin R says:

            @ Micky: Yes, that is correct. Women need to learn that a guy can only take rejection so much.

            @ Melody: “A guy who doesn’t wish to ask a girl out is a guy who does not wish to date.”

            First a question: Who in the world taught you that?

            Now, two things about that statement. 1. It is flat out wrong and 2. I feel sorry for all the girls who believe that. You girls don’t think that we guys don’t want to date unless we ask you out? I’m sorry, but I’m 27 and I’ve asked many girls out in my lifetime and every single one of them have rejected me. Maybe we don’t want to get rejected anymore because we can only take so much. Girls shouldn’t make the mistake of thinking that just because we’re shy doesn’t mean we don’t want to date. It is a wrong way of thinking and I feel that way of thinking needs to stop.

          • Mickey says:

            Agreed. I think a guy can only take so much failure before he gets demoralized to the point of realizing that trying to meet the supposedly “fair sex” is nothing but an exercise in futility.

  75. Kyle says:

    I’ve been looking for a Christian woman for 18 years, and in 18 years, every single one I have asked out has rejected me. Some said it was because I was “too nice;” others said I am “ugly,” “stupid,” “worthless,” “repulsive,” could “never provide me with the lifestyle I deserve,” and one even said and I quote, “do the world a favor and kill yourself.” All of these were from women in church. After 18 years of this, I finally gave up. The last one was so offended that I asked her out, she publicly humiliated me in front of the church. If I had had a gun right then, I would have killed myself. I have not been in a church since then and I don’t think I ever can again.

  76. Thomas says:

    Or maybe guys like me or tired of the lies and rejection. I’ve asked girls to coffe and all they do us lie, stand me up, or turn me town which is the perfer choice. It kills and hurts when they lie but then they complain that Prince Charming or the hunk doesn’t like them. They want Prince Charming and that is hard to live up specially since I’m not that attractive.

  77. Douglas says:

    I know I am late to the game on this but I have to respond to this post. Your man-up rants will only make gender relations worse. This is terrible advice for men. You are invoking shame and trying to use a man’s own masculinity against him. All I heard was “Man up because a woman so you can better serve women.” Men are told to “man up” when they aren’t doing what women and feminized men want and expect them to do. In this culture, “man up” is a demand that a man submit himself to the feminine imperative. Telling men to “man-up” is all about hitching him to a plow, getting a job, making money and “putting away childish things” not for his own good, but for the specific purpose of making himself useful to a woman. He needs to do these things not because it will sharpen him and make him into a man; but because they will benefit some woman in his preordained role as her husband. Don’t castrate the horse and then tell it to be fruitful and multiply. If you want to help do by empowering men and helping them grow in their masculinity.

  78. Esther says:

    What a great article! Not so sure how I came across this but it spoke volumes to me. I have had my share of hurtful relationships with christian guys that I think I am starting to wonder if this will ever happen for me. I go to a very big church with hundreds of great looking guys who are just too afraid to ask and those who have have different intentions in mind.

    With the kind of program I am studying, I find that Christian guys are so intimated to pursue a lasting relationship because they are afraid that I may not exactly be “wife materail.” I am doing my second year of medical school right now, and this has not exactly been in my favor, and this has been an issue with many of my christian sisters in professional careers (law school, pharmacy school, medical school). This may sound bizarre but I have friends making up or not being honest with guys about what they study because they do not want to scare them away. Most of my doctor friends say things like ” I am a doctors assistant, or I work in the health care field” because they do not what the guys will think about them if they are upfront about their true careers as physicians.

    In my own experience, I have had guys say things like “I do not know how you will fit into my mission, I have to pray about it, you are going to be so busy as a doctor, I do not know if I can wait that long before you finish medical school, ” and the list goes on. I do not know if this is fear or intimidation. I think christian guys definitely need to man up and pursue christian sisters in professional schools or at least give them the benefit of a doubt.

    • Johnny says:

      What’s to man up about? Men may not find professional women desirable, because we’re pretty certain they’d put their careers before us, considering how much time, effort, and money they’ve put into them. Women should realize that there’s almost never anything innately attractive to a man about a woman’s career. Also, when a young woman is pursuing professional school, she’s typically using up her most youthful, fertile, and attractive years pursuing something that might be noble from a societal standpoint but does little if anything to attract a husband to her. There’s nothing wrong with a woman being a doctor or a lawyer, but she should know there’s likely going to be a trade-off. The only caveat I can think of is that you’ll probably meet quite a few men in graduate school and so forth, but having two professionals in a marriage can also have its difficulties I would think.

      • Joy says:


        That is, by far, the most sexist and insecure thing I’ve ever heard a man say. “Women should realize that there’s almost never anything innately attractive to a man about a woman’s career.” Then followed up by, “There’s nothing wrong with a woman being a doctor or a lawyer, but she should know there’s likely going to be a trade-off.” And just would this trade off be? That if a Christian woman chooses to be a doctor, she can’t complain when Christian men are too scared and insecure to pursue her? What kind of nonsensical thinking is that??
        Your logic is all types of messed up. Like any and every profession, everyone has motives for the careers they choose. Some it’s money. Some it’s security. Some prestige. Some to help people. Some it’s because it’s what they genuinely love to do. Some it’s because it’s what God called them to do. Some it’s a combination of all the above.

        You’re obviously of the belief that women should not pursue “overly ambitious careers” like medicine or law, as it is not conducive for being a homemaker and raising a family; furthermore, the process to attain such careers is soooo long that she will be too old and ugly for any self-respecting god-fearing man to desire. Are you kidding me?? Perhaps what you’re really getting at is that you are scared that a career woman would not make a good wife because she would be too selfish to make any necessary career sacrifices for her family? I could go on and on about how you are TERRIBLY mistaken with that logic, but I’m not writing this to start an argument with you about why it’s wrong to discourage women from seeking careers (in ANY field) and aspiring to be anything more than homemakers.

        Have you ever considered this senario:

        A woman, who has had a proclivity for the sciences since an early age, honor student, enjoyed learning about the human body and how it works. Always enjoyed serving people as well. She also enjoyed dance and music and art. She enjoyed learning to cook, clean, keep a home. O yea, and she’s also beautiful and believes in God’s design for marriage (wives submitting to their husbands, the whole 9). Her parents encouraged her as a child to pursue whatever her heart desires, but to use her gifts and talents to serve the LORD. Fast forward to young adulthood, the LORD has opened MANY doors for this young woman to pursue a career in medicine. She has the gifts and the God given desire. Are you seriously going to say that this woman should not be a physician, even though God is CLEARLY leading her down that road, in order to make herself available to be a wife for some insecure man who? Or you’re saying if she chooses to follow God’s calling on her life to be a doctor that’s all fine and dandy, but she should expect the “trade off” of being alone due to men not finding such a career woman attractive?


        Plenty of female physicians marry. And are still fertile when they marry. And have kids. And are able to keep their homes up and their husbands happy. Our lifestyle may look unconventional, and it is when compared to women who are stay at home moms, but so what? How a woman runs her home should be the business of her and her husband, and no one else. So my point is, you do what works for YOUR family, and you don’t pass judgment on other people’s situations and speak on things that you don’t know anything about.

        Christian women should be encouraged to seek the LORD’s face as to what His calling is on their lives. Then they should obey Him. Period. God is obviously more than capable of providing a secure, confident, loving, God-fearing husband to his daughters that desire marriagee…even his daughters that are in high-power careers.

        • Jason says:


          For a woman who is so talented as you are. So gifted as you are you spend a lot of time defending yourself. A confident, Godly woman wouldn’t have to.

  79. Kevin says:

    I just found this article and I’m a 23 year old christian and I have never had a serious relationship. Not for lack of trying as this article would imply. I have “asked girls out” as specified in this article, coffee, lunch,… Stuff like that and all that gets me is another friend. I’m not trying to be negative but this article and others like it put the blame on men and usually there is no mention of how women want the bad boy type and not the safe nice guy whether they are christian or not. Im tired of trying to get a christian girls attention only to hear ” your too much of a good friend” basically anything along the lines of its not you it’s me, within a month that same girl is dating a “cool guy” outside the church. I’m not putting all the blame on women, really I’m blaming our society today. Am I completely off base?

    • Geary says:

      Quit trying to date the women at your church. By now word has gotten around that you have asked out a few of them. Women talk to one another and you might be getting a negative reputation of sorts. They may have you in friendship jail. You are going to have to find a woman outside your church. Get on the computer dating services to find a Christian woman. You say “I’m tired of trying to get a Christian girls attention only to hear ” your too much of a good friend” basically anything along the lines of its not you it’s me, within a month that same girl is dating a “cool guy” outside the church.” You said it yourself. You are in friendship jail. The women will date someone outside of their church. You are going to have to be the cool guy outside of someone else’s church. Forget about the women at your church. Get on a dating site.

    • Gurilio (Guy) says:

      I think that it is pretty true that in general people are getting married later and later in our society. I know how you feel…I am 25 years old and never been in a serious relationship either. But I know that it is worth the wait. Just pray for the girl that you will marry and leave it up to God because He will take care of everything!

  80. jon says:

    You will never get anywhere using shame. The wall goes up whenever I hear the phrase “Man up.”

  81. Anonymous says:

    I don’t mean to be a downer but I totally disagree. Young men aren’t asking because there is no incentive to ask. You’re basically telling them to step up to the slaughter like sheep and why shouldn’t you? Women have NOTHING to lose in the marriage arrangement these days and everything to gain. The courts and society are all seriously stacked against men. If he cheats, he loses half of everything……if she cheats, he STILL loses half of everything. Even the whole “sex” thing is a total lie. Sex, even in christian marriage, is more like a dog treat to be handed out for being a good boy…..not some intimate act that God actually intended it to be where both people become closer.

    I’m on my second marriage. I married a non-believer the first time out. She had an affair and left me for dead in a hospital. I deserve what I got for disobeying God by marrying a non-believer. My second marriage, however, is to a believer and sometimes she’s just as much of a feminazi as my first wife was. I can’t count how many times I’ve said “if I had it to do all over again I would not marry at all” and I try as much as I can to pass that on to other young men so they dont get raped emotionally and financially by women like I have. I would not, under any circumstance, try to influence a young man to marry, quite the opposite. A young man should take his eyes off of chicks and put it on Jesus while beating his body (flesh) into submission to the Spirit as Paul talks about.

  82. Andrew says:

    Lol, these articles are hilarious. “Man up and date.” These articles never actually try to tackle how to help this problem… and they usually ignore anything close to important.

    1. Are the women in the church attractive? Are they in decent shape (not fat/overweight) and do they wear their hair down, avoid glasses? Models are not required–however, if a woman is not cute enough, men will feel no urge to go through the bother of asking a girl out/dating if she’s not cute enough to inspire him to act.

    2. Churches are hostile environments to men quite often–sexuality is shunned and male desire is seen as bad.

    3. Women can be bitchy, especially in church. Why risk it?

    4. There’s far better and easier environments to meet women. Starbucks, I kid you not, is an excellent place.

    • Rockin R says:

      I’m inclined to agree with you; however, a couple of things.

      1. I would disagree that starbucks is a great place to find someone. While I have no doubts that it “can” happen, usually, that is a place where both a girl and a guy would go together and those women would still reject you.

      2. Church is hostile towards men. Now this I agree with. Also, women seem to already make up their minds as to if they want to date you or not.

      3. (In my experience) Asking a girl may turn out to be a disaster waiting to happen. I remember I was going to a church even on Wednesday nights and I had asked a girl out through facebook because I didn’t have her number. When I went back the next week. She was with other girls who looked at me and just giggled and laughed, and they weren’t laughing at what the pastor was saying because no one else was laughing except them and I caught them looking at me when they were laughing too.. Also, some girls reject you without even giving you a chance.

  83. Karl Bourke says:

    I fully agree an appreciate this article and agree with it. As a Single christian 32 yr old male I just want to add that I was a prayer for a Girl guy n went to starting to ask girls out for coffee, group thing’s, etc. I strongly feel that in my experience that women say what they want from a guy but when the time comes they just be rude and ignore u or run away plus other examples. WHY CANT WOMEN JUST BE HONEST AND RESPECTFUL WITH US GUYS N JUST SAY NO THANKS BUT THANKS ANYWAY ?

    I asked a girl who I only have friendship feelings for and she said mabye, walked away like a 10 yr old, deleted me of facebook and totally barrs me whenever we cross paths at church ? and all my words were ” HEY CHAMPION U KEEN FOR A COFFEE THIS SARVO” that was all.

    The last normal girlfriend I have had was when I was 17 and she was’nt a christian.

    Now that I am 32 I have had to deal with unnesscary rejection from women. It’s not because of my appearence, job or anything else, and im so over it.

    Everyone around me Is always telling me “Karl I cant believe your not married yet. Your a Builder, good looking, funny, you surf, love God and awesome to be around what are u doing”.

    I will be 33 soon And im left with NO HOPE in this part of my life n would love some wisdom/advice from anyone else who is being put through this by CHRISTIAN WOMEN

  84. sophie says:

    Hi! I’m a 36 y.o single girl. I recently became a believer of God after years of broken relationships with non-Christian men. Can you give me any advice? I want to date a Christian man because of my faith and values but is it now too late? I understand in Christianity, patience in finding love and discovering character in each other is needed but hey, I’m running out of time on my biological clock! What would it take for a Christian man to be willing to date an older girl? Thanks!

  85. David says:

    Amen and thank u to the one who wrote this article I feel like God is giving me answer that I have been asking for :)

  86. Yisak says:

    WOW… Thank you so much for writing this Ruthie.

    I have been wanting to ask someone out, but I’ve been too scared and worried about the consequences. But I see that that is part of what being a confident man is. And yes, I am guilty of hiding behind prayer or my faith or some sort, haha.

    Thank you

  87. John says:

    I’d love to date the women at my church, but I can’t. And here’s why. All women talk, and they all know who asked who out, and if she said yes, if it was a good date, and if they’ll be going out again. If I ask someone out and she says no, I will never (and I do mean NEVER) get a date with any woman in that group. The reason is that women will not be seen with “damaged goods”. They will not date any man who has been turned down (by anyone, for any reason) because they will seem desperate, and it will hurt their social standing. It will look like they can only have other women’s rejects. Women only want men who are dating other women. They will not be seen with a man who was turned down by another women.

    Ladies, don’t deny this. You know it’s true.

    • Jason says:

      Lol…..applause… true. I have friends who go to a “mega-church” here in my city… church is under 100 people, so I thought that was just a small church thing….

      One of my friends says to me “at my church, which has over 3,000 attendees on a Sunday and tons of singles…..its impossible to date here. I have asked out three women in my three years of attending………I was approached by an elder here to ‘stop asking the women out’ because one of the women “didn’t like me” and this spread like wildfire with the women there and when church leadership got wind of it….I of course was a “a danger” to all the (cough) saintly, virginal, perfect women here in the church….”

      Most Christian men are done……as they should be at this point.

      • Mickey says:

        Having church elders call you out as creepy at best, or a stalker at worst:

        Well, this is just one more example confirming why the so-called “fair sex” really isn’t so fair…and why so many guys have given the middle finger to approaching and dating.

        Sarcastic, resigned sigh…

  88. richard says:

    It’s called sexual brokenness For any women that doesn’t understand why men are behaving in the manner of not being a man

  89. Michael from Australia says:

    This article tries to blame men & start shaming them for doing the right thing, self preservation.
    I am an older Christian guy in his 40’s who wanted marriage in his early 20’s.
    I was shocked that i never come across a Christian woman. they were all Feminist Christians, even though they deny that they are feminist. A Christian woman should stay home, or at best minimally work to supplement her husband’s pay.
    This is alien to the carnal Christians now, they have the jezebel women without knowing it.

  90. Corbin says:

    I really love the intentions of this, but there are still some problems involved with this. Sometimes dating while youth can upset your balance of friends. For example, if you’re a Christian youth, there’s a good chance you’re going to be in a youth group. And if you’re a Christian male devoted to only seeking Christian females, you have a small selection of females to be attracted to. And what happens if more than one person likes someone else? I know that if you’re dating someone that someone else likes, it’s none of their business to interfere, but this may cause friendships to be unintentionally hurt. I’ve seen it happen. I think this is why some Christian guys are afraid to do this sort of thing. Same with females, too! I know some great Christian ladies that avoid dating in their youth because of the exact same situation.

  91. Theo says:

    One problem I see with many Christian young men is that they are fully
    Invested in the notion of the One, and hoping, and praying. and looking and discerning that much of the simple joy of making a connection with a girl has been lost. It’s no wonder there’s so much dating fatigue in Christian circles.

    And you can’t ask men to spiritualize every single part of their life, every single thought they have, and then tell them to turn it off in what is the most important decision of their lives.

    • tloft says:

      The problem with Christian girls. They want prince charming. I’ve been rejected, stood up, ignored, laughed at, lied to, and avoided by girls I was interested in. I think men should not be blamed in this. I thing both should be blamed. Yes men need to grow up, but in my situation girls have been so hurtful it has destroyed my trust in girls, as well as hurt my selfcesterm.

    • tloft says:

      The problem with Christian girls. They want prince charming. I’ve been rejected, stood up, ignored, laughed at, lied to, and avoided by girls I was interested in. I think men should not be blamed in this. I thing both should be blamed. Yes men need to grow up, but in my situation girls have been so hurtful it has destroyed my trust in girls, as well as hurt my self esteem. Girls need to stop looking for the perfect man and start looking for the man who strives to be godly. Men need to be loving and need to look for the woman who strives to be godly. Stop looking for the romantic comedy guy or the prince charming. To say women are not shallow is denial. Look at society. They are just as guilty as men. Yes men need to man up, but women need to be honest and show compassion. I’ve been hurt too many times. It’s exhausting. I’m 32 and still never been kissed or in relationship. Because I NOT Good enough. They never said it, but their actions showed me thatm

      • Mickey says:


        I see it , too. Sadly, you’re not the only guy who feels this way. I guess if so many women are that hostile to guys, maybe the best thing to do is just walk away and not subject yourself to so much aggravation. It’s not worth it.

  92. Jason says:

    Reading through all these comments…..what a bunch of nonsense.

    Ask a Christian woman out? It’s “Let’s be friends”

    Don’t ask her out? It’s “Where have all the Godly men gone? That’s why I have to date non-Christians and missionary date”

    Basically it’s this: Where are the Godly men that I am attracted to on all levels.

    I gave up a few years back. Women want Jesus, and NO MAN can be him. Sorry Ladies.

    This situation is only going to get worse, and the women in the church have brought it ALL upon themselves.
    Have fun running civilization cup-cake! We’re outta here!

    • Mickey says:

      Yeah, that’s about it.

    • Rockin R says:

      I’m inclined to disagree, but sadly I can’t. I am going to have to agree with you on that.

      • Jason says:

        It’s a sad truth about the matter. All I find on this topic is basically: “men need to put down the video games, ask women out, and make all her dreams come true”

        What do women bring today to modern Christian marriage? Sex?

        …And from my Christian married friends it is evidently given “begrudgingly” or with used as a method of total control; and / or punishment if her material desires are not fulfilled / he doesn’t make her “happy” at all times.

        It’s not worth it. Very few pastors never “ask” or uplift, or help men in Christ today. They shame, belittle, and shut them down if they “dare” ask for help, or struggle with this issue. Why? Because they are men, and are supposed to know. They are supposedly leaders. They have all the answers when they have their gf / wife’s permission.

        Our goal should be striving to make Christ Jesus to say “well done faithful servant!”

        With Christian divorce rates only a few point lower than the secular world. When over 70% of Christian divorces are initiated by women…….and most are NOT for infidelity…….why do you think men don’t want to marry?

        With men who are growing, new, or trying to understand this “Jesus guy” they are still not good enough for just about all the women in the church. Looking at many of the comments here, and the original post itself… wonder men are not showing up. No answers on HOW to be a man of God. No answers to why the first marriage failed. No answers to why they lost their job. No answers for feeling lost be a no good earthly father.

        No, men don’t have feelings…we’re no good. Just marry all these women who ‘claim” Jesus.

        I keep hearing from women “I just want a husband who loves Jesus”

        My reply? “Lots of us here DO love Jesus, but you just want to be friends with us”

        • Rockin R says:

          Yes on the sex thing. God tells us in his word that sex is a beautiful thing as long as it is done only with the spouse. Seems though that for some reason, women seem to treat sex as a very dirty term and a husband should only “want” it at certain times and if he wants it more, he’s either a pig or he’s got nothing better to do. Now before all you women want yell in outrage because I said that, understand, I don’t mean for every women, but the majority of them do and I blame society. How does the television portray sex? It’tells people that it’s okay to have it when you are not married and with multiple partners so you can know who’s “got it” and who doesn’t..

          I have no idea why the Church is against men when it comes to dating or marriage. If you have any friends and you want to date a woman, your friends first tell you, “Go get her and you have to kinda be fast so she doesn’t get taken away. then when you try to be “fast” about it, they tell you to “slow down.” Much like when they tell you, “You have to tell her how you feel.” and then later on they say, “Get to know her a couple of months before you tell her. The sad part about that is, when you want to wait a couple of months, here comes this stud that ends up telling her how he feels about her, not giving her space, and she goes for him right away.

          • Jason says:

            Agreed. Let me be ‘crystal clear’ here. I am Holy in these regards. I do not advocate or make “excuses for” premarital sex. Many do.

            Dating / courtship / marriage is indeed in trouble in our Faith today. We can ‘blame’men. We can blame the ‘times’ but we also have to start the discussion of “what to do about it”

            I was frankly talking to a brother-in-Christ who is my age. Not married. No children. We ended up have a very long convo about it; once we “cleared” our own ‘griping’ and took it for what it was……we realized that in our Christian culture……we have openly allowed “secular” cultures concepts about marriage into our church culture.

            Men are to be a “provider” and I agree with this…..but to provide what? A comfortable upper-middle-class lifestyle? Okay. If a man is blessed with these abilities, and skills to do this…..I celebrate that. But look, look at the first disciples. The early church…..

            They didn’t own “flocks and herds of goats” nor were they “rich merchants.” By the standards of today, applied to then……..these men were not “providers” they would be considered “lazy” and they would have to get some “training” and learn other skills to hold a “respectable” job (being a tax-collector was not a respectable job) before “taking” a wife. Being a fisherman was not a “union” job with benefits.

            Christ called THEM, as he calls US…all of us. Men and women. When the Rabbi called them; they did not say “let me first confer with my wife for a few days Jesus, say goodbye; take her out for a nice meal, buy her gifts and get a kitchen-pass to follow you”

            They left their nets and followed. Matthew left his tax collector booth and followed Him. Christ considered them worthy; as He considers us worthy.

            I agree that men in general (in His church) need to walk tightly and closer with God. DAILY. Many claim they are….but are they? A blessing of God is to be with Him for the sake of being with Him….not for riches, or personal glory / achievement. Christ told us not to make our “good works” know to the eyes of men. He called us to prayer; not because he has an bloated ego…but he knows we NEED Him; and He alone is worthy of worship…..

            Not money. Not prestige. Not a comfortable living (and these things are not bad per say)….but a true LOVE that will shine in us when we follow Him; which will PROVIDE confidence, spiritual leadership TO BE that man He calls us to be with our wives, and the children we father :-)

            I wish I had the solution. I wish I could frankly tell my sisters in Christ to PRAY and UPLIFT us men (that is viewed as weakness sadly). How I longed as a man for a wife that would HELP me…..and without going into “negative” waters here……

            I’ll just say “Christ wants me to follow Him, no matter what others are doing wrong……even in His church today”

          • Rockin R says:

            A man can provide and should provide. but what if the man can’t or is uncomfortable doing certain things? Whatever happened to the “come as you are people” I feel like we’ve changed into the “you have to meet these standards for me or else, see ya, people.

  93. Trevor says:

    Hmm, I’m not afraid to ask women out. I”m divorced and been single for 7 years now and honestly I don’t meet anyone my age in church and I had no success on online dating. Women my age wouldn’t even reply to me. I gotta say, I’m so frustrated waiting for a miracle that never happens I want to just go out with non christians; at least I meet them. I’ve had my share of attractive non Christians who expressed interest. I’m not made of stone; how long can I keep turning them away and saying, sorry I will only date a Christan. Well, if I were honest I should just tell them I’ve taken a vow to be alone forever, because that’s what waiting for a Christian has turned into. I’m pretty bummed and being involved with Church activities just makes me feel even lonelier. Every home group, every mission trip, every activity is couples. Being the only single in a home group really gets old.

    • Michael says:


      Thank you for sharing, I cannot imagine how hard that is for you. I lived alone for 5 years in Germany, and from experience, know that loneliness can be completely crushing and debilitating. I had to lean heavily on scripture and my friends. Blessings this fall,


      • Michael says:

        Sorry, I spelled your name incorrect. *Trevor*

        • Trevor says:

          No problem Michael. I appreciate the kind words. The people at the church I currently go to are very nice and wonderful people, but they are really into evangalism and I can’t bring myself to do that. It feels like a lie to tell people the good news when my soul is wasting away from loneliness; practically everyone I work with are non believers and most have nice families and pretty wives, yet I’m supposed to believe that I just get my act together then I’ll earn the right to receive a wife from God.

          I’ve been skipping church lately and I’m throwing myself into work to take my mind off my life; I’m just angry now and feel that love is a lie where my life is concerned.. Even when I commit myself to daily devotions and prayer, memorizing scripture it doesn’t magically make me feel better and I still don’t feel that God is anywhere nearby. I just end up in tearful prayers that feel like they bounce off the ceiling.

          I’ve been offered a job down in Colombia and I’ve been learning Spanish for almost a year. I just need to get out of my home town and change scenery. I’m so sick of the daily grind. Weekends are the worst, as there’s a lot of solitary time and I’d rather just keep working. So I’m going to jet early next year hopefully. I’m sure people will say I can’t run from my problems, but nothing is going to change here anyway and I have no faith anymore that I will meet anyone, so I may as well go somewhere different and learn another language and meet some new people.

          I never thought I’d end up this cynical, but that’s where I am. I don’t think I’m going to go back to church now, I can’t relate to all the families I’m surrounded by and just feel like a third wheel. The irony is when I’m at work I’m known as the funny guy and everyone loves working with me and hanging out, but they have no idea how dark my life is otherwise and how I feel when I’m alone. My faith is on life support these days.

          • Michael says:

            Hi Trevor,

            Thank you again for sharing your heart and struggle, despite a few negative comments on here, this should be a safe place for a man to share. I understand that feeling of loneliness all too well, I can’t tell you how many times I ended up on my knees and or face just praying for it to end. Trevor, it will end, this is not forever.

            I disagree with the people that tell you, or a culture that tells you that you have to “just get your act together” then God will give you a wife. The God I know has never required my to earn ANYTHING. That is what makes grace so amazing, it is unearned and undeserved!

            I also think that just rote memorization of scripture will not fix it, as you already expressed. The type of prayers you are describing, the’tearful prayers’ those are the ones that are the most real, and I know God hears them.

            In times of pain i received the following advice, and it seemed to help. “When life hurts, focus on what is clear, not on what is unclear.’ Trevor I dont know why you have not found anyone, but I do know that God hurts when you hurt, that his Holy Spirit is with you in those tearful prayers, that he hates your pain and suffering. Since I can’t answer they “why” question, I try and focus on the clear things about God’s character and most importantly Jesus. God is a good dad.

            Lastly, getting some new scenery is not a bad thing if you decide to move. Don’t lose hope, keep the faith, but be open to change. Surround yourself with people who bring out life in you, that may be somewhere else, it may be where you live now, I don’t know.

            Your brother,

  94. Kyle says:

    Even though this is an old article, I just feel like commenting on it as I came across it today.

    I’ve been a Christian since I was 13; raised in the church, and for almost 25 years have tried to live my life as God and Jesus said we should. I will freely admit that I have failed more time than I can count, but I have always tried to improve myself after each failure. I know I will never be perfect, or even close to it, but I will continue to do my best to live a Christian life.

    That said, in the last 20 years, I have never once had one woman go out with me. I’ve asked probably 30 or so in those years, and all I have gotten back are responses from a couple of “no thanks” to some blatant lies “God told me not to date anyone right now” (but starts dating someone else a few weeks later) to “I have to wash my hair” (I thought that was a made for TV cliché) to some of the most hateful comments I have ever heard in my life. Sadly, I have a photographic memory, and can remember all of this like it was 5 minutes ago.

    The most common reason for rejection has been my looks. I have been told I am ugly, repulsive, hideous, grotesque, and various other insulting adjectives. I know I am not attractive, in fact I probably am ugly, but I am not Quasimodo.

    The second most common is because I was “too nice,” which I was told by several that they saw me as a “wimp, wuss, pushover, boring, and/or predictable.” Several of them who said this ended up dating and even marrying non-Christian men who wound up being abusive and several who cheated on them. I guess “bad boys” are more fun even when they beat you up.

    Another, who somehow figured I was interested in her before I asked her out, sent her best to shoot me down in a preemptive strike. Her reason, she would not date a guy who was losing his hair. Well, I’m sorry; I didn’t ask to inherit that darn gene.

    The worst of them all was when I made the mistake of asking out the one woman every man in the church would have loved to date. She seemed to have all the good personality qualities one would want, and was to put it simply, drop dead gorgeous. I knew I had no chance, but I figured why not. Even if I could go out with her just once, I’d be happy. When I asked her out, she laughed and asked me back if I was serious. I told her I was. As if she could not believe what she was hearing, she asked again if *I* was really trying to ask her out on a date or did one of her friends put me up to playing a joke on her. I should have just told her yes and walked away, but I guess I just had to know what this excuse would be. Her response, and I quote, “You are the ugliest guy in this church and you are asking me out? What in the world gave you the idea I would ever want to be seen in public with you? Being in public with you would be an embarrassment so bad I would want to kill myself. Perhaps you should go do that instead and make everyone happy.”

    At a church party, I was listening to a woman talking to her friends about how much she hated always going out with guys who ended up treating her badly. They were sitting right behind me, so I couldn’t help but hear. Now, she had been in the church’s singles group about as long as I had, so we weren’t strangers. I thought “oh why not?” and turned around and asked her if she’d like to go out sometime. She told me flat out no with the usual “nice guy” excuse, saying I would bore her. I replied that she was tired of dating losers who mistreated her, so perhaps she should think about dating someone considered “nice.” We might not be as “exciting” as an abusive man, but we would treat her with respect and the way God says to. That went in one ear and out the other. She said that might be true, but she’d just couldn’t be involved with someone boring like me and the rest of the “nice guys” at church. Her friends all agreed with her, pretty much mocking me to my face. I got up and walked out so no one would see me cry.

    My personal favorite was when I was told that I was “intellectually beneath me” by the woman I asked out. Apparently having an IQ of around 125 wasn’t good enough, given her IQ of around 150. Also, only having a Master’s degree in what she called a “worthless field for idiots” compared to her PhD in theoretical mathematics was proof that I was a stupid moron. She also had to tell me I was too ugly for her, or for any woman for that matter. Even better, she did it by e-mail; didn’t even have the guts to say it to my face.

    After that, I left that church and have not been back to church since except once other than for funerals. A coworker invited me to church as his wife had a friend they wanted me to meet. I was terrified, but didn’t want to be rude and say no. I met her, she seemed nice, but I could tell she was disappointed and what she said to his wife when they moved far enough away, thinking I couldn’t hear. The friend wanted to know why they lied to her; knowing she only wanted to date “hot guys” and not “ugly” ones like me. When the wife came back to join us, I told her word for word what I had just heard. The look of abject horror on her face kind of shocked me; she clearly didn’t know that I heard the conversation. I thanked them for their kindness and walked out. At this point, I doubt I will ever set foot in a church again. I’m sure no one will believe me because it just seems too farfetched. As I’ve said before, if all of these things hadn’t happened to me, I wouldn’t believe it could happen to anyone.

    There is no church in this town which has a singles group anymore except for ungraduated college students. All seem to have been disbanded in the last 5-10 years. Besides, it is very apparent that for whatever reason, no woman, and especially no Christian woman would ever want me. Striving to be the best Christian man I can be and wanting nothing more than to share my life with a Christian woman; shouldn’t that be enough to at least be given a chance? What could hurt in saying “yes” just once? And if you’re really not interested, just politely decline. There is no need to launch a nuclear strike.

    I’m not picky; I don’t expect a woman to be a Kate Upton or Sophie Turner. My only real standard when it comes to looks is a woman who has enough self-respect to take care of herself. Other than that, all I want is for her to be a Christian woman who has and will continue to do her best to live by the Word of God. Is that so much to ask?

    I do wonder, did God put me on this Earth for no other reason than to spend an entire life alone and suffering from loneliness so bad it feels like I am being crushed?

    • Geary says:

      You are not the only man out there who has suffered many, if not all of the same things you just described. Me saying that doesn’t make you feel better because it doesn’t change the fact that there is no woman in your life. Take stock of yourself. Improve on the things that you can control, such as your body shape, your grooming, your clothes, and the other ways in which your present yourself. Can you get a better job with a higher income? All of these things and more are important. Now here is a hard thing to deal with, but it needs to be said. Stop asking out women from church. Quit it. You have determined that none of them will date you for whatever their reasons may be including the following reason of which you might be unaware. Women talk to each other and word has spread that you have asked out many of them. This disqualifies you from the woman who might have otherwise dated you (I know, assuming she exists.) GET ON AN INTERNET DATING WEBSITE. You will find Christian women there who want to date men. Do it.

      • Kyle says:


        There isn’t much I can do about my appearance short of paying a massive amount for plastic surgery. I have several health problems which make it hard for me to build muscle mass or lose weight. For the record, I am not overweight, but would like to lose about 20lbs. I am always looking for another job, but even interviews seem to be hard to get. I make okay money, but I am not rich nor am I ever likely to be.

        I’ve tried online dating, it was worthless. Never had a single reply on Match, OkCupid, Christian Mingle, Plenty of Fish, etc. eHarmony would not let me join. I’ve tried three times and they tell me I am not what they are looking for.

        I have not been to church in years, and have no plan to do so. No church in this area has a singles group (other than for college students) and I think they don’t even want us to attend. We’re all seen as defective since we’re not married by 25.

        And my story did not occur at one church (3 different ones) and it was spread out over 15 years.

    • Jason says:


      All I can say to you right now won’t help. It won’t make the pain you feel “go away” and if women reply to your comment right now….it could do more harm than good.

      Look, four and half years ago I was “digging” for ANYTHING on the Internet that would give me an “answer” to “why am I single” and once you push aside the whole “the church is filled with devout, sincere, beautiful women who just want a Godly husband” tripe (and lie) and read through it……..things will get better. They will.

      When I hear women in my church and other churches say to me “I just want a man who loves Jesus” I tell them now “no, you don’t. you want a man who loves Jesus that you are attracted to on all levels”

      Yeah, they get mad. Christian women in general don’t (and are never) called out by men for their sins.

      Now, don’t get stuck in anger………accept their fallen nature for what it is. Too many women (and men) church is a club or a facade. The Bible warns us of this… it should be no surprise to us. Also remember this as man:

      Just because you are a Christian, it doesn’t mean Christian women have to date you. That my friend was a HARD lesson for me to learn. A woman likes you or she doesn’t. Nothing you can do can make her like you, or date you. This is where men in your situation (mine too) get angry and stuck…..EXACTLY where satan wants us. Did you hear me???? EXACTLY. He wants US questioning God’s plan, and provision. He wants us to question if He indeed loves us. He wants us not to learn, grow, or change……or even accept a situation. Satan is here to: lie, kill, slay, deceive, destroy, embitter, cause envy, hate, slander and question His love for us………………

      Satan attacks men like US this way because he knows we don’t have that helper with us. If only we we were “endeared” like all those other Christians. If only we had a wife…..then we could be equipped to fight the devil.

      He then whispers; no he then yells at us…tells us we’re physically ugly. He proves it to us by our single status. He will even throw attractive Christian women in front of us to shame and belittle us. Satan is not something to think “in theory” dear brother. Give him one micrometer and he will PRY himself into your life.

      What do we do?

      First, you are going to have to get into prayer. Reading the Word EVERYDAY. Even if you start with JUST a couple of verses. Secondly……understand that God does not OWE you or PROMISE your dreams to come true. When our sorrowful Savior hung on that cross, after He was mocked, beaten, betrayed and hated……he asked right before death “Father, why have you forsaken me”

      Notice the word “why”

      We as men of Christ ask it constantly. Notice God DIDN’T answer Jesus. God didn’t “explain” and break it down for us. So if God is not going to “answer” His only Son, there maybe a time when He may not indeed answer us. Expect it. His ways are not the earth’s.

      Throughout this journey, I have been frequently called “bitter” and a “hater of women” and “not a real Christian”
      by women because I really don’t put up with shaming language by them, or incorrect meaning of Scripture and incorrect context.

      Women using phrases like this on you mean to “end” the conversation and shut you up. You wouldn’t want them as a wife or girlfriend anyway.

      Look, this is going to take a TON of self-examination on your part as well. This will not be easy. But first, prayer, the Word and thirdly self-reflection and criticism.

      • Kyle says:


        There isn’t anything left to hurt. I am pretty much a walking corpse at this point, at least on the inside. Even my own father his disowned me because I am not married so he could have grandchildren. Both my sisters do not and will never have kids, but it’s me he hates for being single. I was told to not even come to his birthday party a couple of weeks ago.

        I’ve prayed for decades and have never once received anything. I have spent many sleepless nights crying, begging God for mercy. I’ve read the Bible so many times I can quote it all day long. I have resisted the temptations that Satan has thrown at me, even though some could have meant hooking up with a (somewhat drunk) woman for the night. Believe me, that was very hard to resist.

        It becomes harder each day to trust in God if I never see any proof that he is there, hears me, or even loves me. I don’t ask for much; even a tiny crumb would be enough.

        I understand wanting a person one is attracted to, that’s human nature, but women today want a man who is so physically perfect that very few of us can ever meet their standards. For many, the guy needs to be ripped, have a high income, over dress, be “husband/father material”, pay for everything, be confident to the point of narcissism, have perfect hair, and oh, be ripped. For men like me, all we want is a woman who shares our Christian values, honest, and has enough self-respect to take care of herself. She does not have to be Kate Upton or Sophie Turner. As the Bible says, beauty is fleeting.

        • Jason says:

          I have no idea who Kate Upton or Sophie Turner are…probably what Winona Ryder was to me back in 1989 ;-) and yeah…beauty is fleeting.

          With that said…….I cannot fathom the pain you are in. Part of the process of healing and accepting our situations in this world and life is understanding pain. I don’t know you personally, but I know depression, self-loathing, sadness and hurt from your reply dear brother. I have been there. I don’t know how old you are and that doesn’t matter………what matters is that you out of some sort of desperate attempt for sympathy, empathy….an answer, a feeling that someone…….someone here on this earth cares about you in a Christ-like manner………..

          Well, like it or not. You got me.

          I do care. I care a lot. My past attitude about loneliness and why have “i” been forsaken to walk this world alone almost drove me to suicide……and this was AFTER I cleaned up from the drink and drugs and became a Christian!!!! You are in a rough way right now. I know you are hurt and in pain.

          Like I said in my first reply to you, nothing I can say to you right now will make your sadness go away. I am being honest here. I can listen. I can give empathy to a point. I cannot justify suicide or pure hatred of women as a Christian……..just putting that out there, ’nuff said.

          I won’t say trite things like “Jesus loves you” (of course He does). I won’t give you advice on how to meet women (advice to meet / date women is super-subjective. What works for one, fails with another, God made us ALL very unique that way. We are not a peg board or jello-mold, or a one-solution-fixes-everything. You knew that already though my friend ;-) )……since i got better as a man and claimed a “healthy, masculine Christian mind” a few years back I am going to say something shocking.

          Right now. This moment. At this point in your life….you are not able to have a girlfriend. You’re not.

          I didn’t say “never” or ten years from now you will be okay. In your state of mind and in your helplessness at this moment, you would not be able to handle one. Speaking solid TRUTH brother in the most masculine but gentle way I can on the Internet in this medium.

          You could be ready very quickly if truth be told…….seriously! Look, I won’t say like a *christian toothpaste commercial* “I will pray for you”

          Know that I will friend Kyle. I will not just offer a bit of sound advice……you have heard plenty of that too I am sure. I am not going to shame you…but I will speak plain TRUTH to you. Right now, you just need to know that a solid brother in Christ LOVES you, and I mean it:

          I will write more later. If you would like my email….so we can get off of here and let them eat cake so to speak, let me know!


          • Geary says:

            Kyle, I am very sorry to hear about how things have gone for you in this life so far. However, get that better job. Do it. Lose the 20 pounds. Start running. Whenever you feel depressed, and I suspect that is a constant in your life, go for a run. You will get a runner’s high and you will feel a lot better about yourself and life in general. I myself have gone through many of the same things as you. Don’t worry about women. Women will come your way once you experience your change in attitude resulting from the runner’s high. Pound some weights. Same results will come about. Let me know how things turn out.

          • Kyle says:

            Geary, as I mentioned, I have some health problems. One is a bad left knee, injured when I was a kid. One day I will have to have it replaced so I cannot jog. It will ache so bad after only a couple of minutes that I can barely walk.

            Jason, thanks for telling me I can’t have a girlfriend. So when? When I’m 50, 60, in a nursing home? Just when I thought I couldn’t feel any worse I have to read that, although I know what wasn’t your intention. I’d like just a date, nothing more than for a woman to give me a couple of hours of her time. That alone would help a lot, but I can’t even get that. All I do is sit at home, feeling everyday like I could die under the soul crushing loneliness I feel. Even going out with my two friends; I still feel totally alone, but no one in my life really knows. I’ve become an expert at faking being happy because it is what everyone expects and no one in my life really cares to hear my problems.

          • Thomas says:

            Thanks to Christianwen I suffer from Social anxiety disorder. I’ve been stood up(2 times) lied to many times, given a number but then ignored, told the friend crap line and ignored, and even at my dad’s funeral girls didn’t want to hug me or shake my hand, but loved to console my brother. Women need to grow up. I’m tired of being told I need to be deep in God to find a girl as that’s arrogant. We are all sinners. There is no good man out there. The man you marry will sin everyday and so will the woman. Faith in Jesus is the most important aspect. I’m tired of the rejection, but in the end of they loved Jesus they wouldn’t lie and stood me up. I was even told behind my back I was too godly(didn’t believe in getting drunk) so the women in churches are pictures as precious stones and men as wicked sinful creatures in reality they both sinful creatures loved by the same God. Take off the me glasses and look through God’s eyes. Look at yourself and see that you still sin. Also one day you will grow wrinkles and get old and so will your spouse. Beauty doesn’t last. I may not be attractive, very skinny and have muscles, which is due to a disease., but I do my best to love and serve the Lord. I have several diseases people can’t see and they affect my image. So to all the girls who wanted a hot muscular guy some people can’t help being the weight they are.

  95. Jason says:

    Men…….as much as I can agree with you concerning the attitude of too many women in our faith today……agreed, it IS a problem. Agreed our church-culture really does nothing to address this except it still tells single Christian men: all christian men are boys, are porn addicts, are losers, live in mommy’s basement, are not leading, are players, are not holy, are not amazing, not talented, and gifted like all the single women in church today……….including single-mothers……..

    Yes. I know this is being purported on many levels. It IS a problem. With that said…….and acknowledged…….

    Women don’t owe you date because they are Christian….either in name only, or actually living it. Nowhere does God tell or promise you a wife. A date. He doesn’t promise every man that “claims Him” that he will father children in, or have children. The Bible does not promise you a good job that utilizes your skills / potentials or abilities. It doesn’t promise physical-good-looks deemed “hot” on a societal / cultural standard. It doesn’t promise a new house, “leadership” or “prestige” in a “nice” suburban church with lots of members. God does not reward you just because you are “nice” and “friendly” to all the women in your church. God does not promise you even good health in this life.

    Look, I am no expert on women. I don’t get dates. I don’t have sex. I don’t really care at this point.

    Women I have noticed……Christian or not……don’t like excessive complaining from a man, or excuses. They don’t. You can call out truths. You can have opinions about them (I do). You can have some general standards for yourself about what kind of woman you want in your life…………and disagreeing with a women doesn’t mean you “hate” women and are “bitter” (they throw that comment out very quickly today I have noticed, happens to me ALL the time). Women are a pretty vain bunch when it comes to looking for a man……there is no coy innocence here, or very little……..but women don’t care how “nice” you are. They don’t. Everyone thinks they are “nice” even the “bad boys” and players think they are “nice”

    It’s a stupid word to use, and a excuse. Saying “nobody’s perfect” is another shut-down / shut-up / ending the conversation type of phrase that men and women use. Of course no one is perfect. Only God is. It’s comparing the obvious of perfection (God) to us and it’s a lame cop-out of an answer to use…..especially when men use it. Double standard? Yeah it is….but it’s just the way it is. You demanding change of an imperfect world concerning your dating life as a man with excuses / cop-outs and phrases like this WILL turn women away from you. Christian or not. Hot or not. Holy or not.

    Do women only want a rich guy? Yeah, many of our (cough) “saintly sisters” use the word “provider” because it’s in The Bible, and they think it means that a man must make all of her Disneyfied-Cinderella-Princess-dream-lies come true with material things, and a comfortable standard of American living. The fact is that WAY too many women…..Christian or not……….WILL date the guy in a rock band who is 28, lives in mommy’s basement, doesn’t work and lives in sinful ways…….now that CHOICE is on the woman BUT it shows that women will date someone who doesn’t have a lot. Women make BAD choices too, much more frequently than most leaders in our faith will admit.

    Christian single-men. You can’t have it both ways. It’s female-double speak (which many of them are masters at) and it IS VERY unattractive on a man. It is. I even cringe when I hear men speak like a Hillary Clinton speech/ snippit. It’s not masculine. It’s not Christian and it’s not being a man.

    Too many men here (and everywhere on the Internet) claim “they just want a date with a nice Christian lady”
    and I will tell you straight up: No you don’t. Because I know about fifty women right now who are single…and that is just in my circle at church. You want someone you are attracted to as well. I do. Women do. This is not being shallow or mean. It’s a truth. Part of the issue here is that we Christians have brought ALL the worldly standards of physical beauty / cultural norms INTO Christian dating culture….and it has been MOSTLY women who have done this. No woman wants a guy who is not ATTEMPTING to change a situation.

    I was a drug addict (cocaine) for a long time. I threw away a good career (IBM), and flushed my private college and private grad school education down a toilet. I made the choices. No one put a gun to my head and made me snort cocaine and blow over 40K in one year. I, at one TIME “blamed women” for this.

    It was pathetic now looking back…..of the “wails” of “If women would just be nice and date a nice guy like me, I wouldn’t drink / do drugs / be angry / be upset. If they just gave me a chance they would see how cool I am.”

    Placing all of your future happiness / potentials on a another person is FOOLISH. It’s a cop-out, it’s an excuse and I know “women do it too” but it looks and IS more pathetic on a man. Christian or not. Hot or not. Holy or not.

    Christ ONLY promises righteousness. Promises a future. Confidence is not about having “the right words to say to a girl to make her laugh”

    Confidence is not about “your job, or what you have or don’t have”

    It is being comfortable IN HIM and HIM alone. When I decided to get “cleaned up off of cocaine” and begin to “fix” my life. It was given ALL to him. I didn’t sit around and say “well, God work a miracle” I had to trust that I would be secure in the choice to get clean and that I was accepted, secure and significant to HIM. Not to a women. Not to what other people though, not to get a wife or a date or marriage / sex.

    As much as I disagree with the premise of this WHOLE article by Ruthie Dean here……..I will say that when as a man, you are striking out constantly……maybe God is telling YOU something. No, that you are not worthless because He isn’t like that. Perhaps he wants some serious, painful, hurtful wrestling to be something more of what HE wants…not what “women want” or (cough) “saintly” church-women want. I am not here to make ANYONE feel bad, but men too need a full backslap of reality in their lives, and it can only come from other men.

    And before you slam me. I am not successful with women (and I frankly don’t care). I have never been married. Never been “endeared” by them and I have never had a date.

    • Thomas says:

      Perfect statement!

      • Mickey says:

        I think that life becomes much less complicated once one comes to the realization that many women just will not be there for men. Period. Not as helpmeets, soulmates, spouses, friends,,,you name it. As most women today have the mentality that they are too good for men, and men can’t do anything right in their estimation, there is no point in trying to pursue any relationships with them.

        • Jason says:

          Okay Mickey….I get that sentiment. I live a lot of it in my own life. Do I hate women? No. Do I pursue them now? No. Do I hope they will be able to find a husband…..if they truly want one who is Godly? Yes I do.

          Have I formed the “he-man women haters club”? No I have not. I have no idea what they want. Why they like one man, and not another, why they pass up one guy and not another. I can’t answer that. We can waste the rest of our lives trying to ponder that.

          I can tell you why I just “gave up” but what good would it do at this point? I can reply to posting on pages like this; sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong. The biggest reason I do reply is the fact the we have something that is VERY broken here. Casting all the blame on women, or belittling men won’t solve a thing anymore. We Christians have done enough complaining about it. So, what are we doing?


          You can have the best “be a man” workshops around. We can have the best pastors tell us men how we men are failing. We can have workshops, books, metrics, and (cough) “experts” tell us what exactly what we are doing wrong. It won’t do any good. It won’t. We can blame Josh Harris’s book. Great. Blame away! So while we just blame, nothing gets better.

          If you as a man WANT to date and get married, be father, a husband in a Christ-like situation, and you have been batting about 600 for years….time to look in the mirror and ACCEPT something(s) you are doing OBVIOUSLY are not working. Women play a factor in this true. Bad luck, for lack of a better term can play a part……A PART…… cannot be the only reason. Christians ARE getting married, and no not just the young and beautiful / handsome. Christians somehow are still figuring this out.

          I don’t believe in soulmates. I don’t believe it is my job as a Christian man to guard a “woman’s heart” that is her own job. Just like I am responsible for my own actions (and I made some pretty bad ones in my life, praise Christ I at least accepted responsibility and got my house in order on a lot of things..still working on others).

          You cannot define attraction down to a “science” or a basic algebra equation. Yes, the physical attraction plays a part. Guess what? 99% of us are average looking. Career can play a part. Attitude plays a part. Your personal outlook on how to follow the Word of God plays a part. I know we “all love Jesus, and want to be like Him”

          But do we????? Would we accept a betrayal that helped cost us our life? Would we REALLY spend forty-days and nights in a desert TEMPED and TAUNTED by the devil himself? Would we still forgive a CLOSE friend that denied “knowing us”? Would we hang on a cross for the sin of OTHERS, and people we would never see or know face to face?

          This is not over-spiritualizing. This is real. Everyone wants a husband / wife………and nobody seems to understand that this Holy gift is for glorifying God……..everyone wants “revival” but no one wants to understand the cost we are really up against for getting one. What would we DO with a revival if indeed God bestowed one upon a remnant or people, or church?????????

          Men, a woman likes you or she doesn’t. She may change her mind. She may not. Are you working? Are you conforming yourself daily more into God’s Son? Are you actively praying for a wife? Are you asking a solid Christian mentor / wing-man / bro for FRANK but gentle advice of what YOU may be lacking without getting “offended” by their observations. It’s not easy to tell someone, “hey… have to drop some weight, let me encourage, help and try to assist you.” It isn’t easy to say “Holmes, you have REALLY bad breath, let’s find out why.” (medications, gum disease, could be part of this issue). Are you just watching sports on TV and not playing any? Are you trying to face your own personal sin, and REALLY fix it? Are you just living in the past……..and won’t close the chapters for what a girl did to you when you were nineteen / abuse by a parent or one who was supposed to protect you / because you were picked on in high school????? Forgive. End the chapter. Put a period on it; handle it and honestly move on. Our past can shape our future but it doesn’t have to OWN us. Christ is proof of this. I am proof of this.

          Look, this can be an exhaustive list and it’ not going to take a “week or two” to change patterns, accepting of where you stand, or even the “how” to fix / change or set a new direction. Also because we are made in Christ, and He loves our uniqueness…..everything about attraction won’t work with every person. It won’t. Our situations are as numerous on the hairs on our heads (and mine now sadly is falling out, sigh)

          You can’t dump it on God, and call Him a liar because he never promised anything to us concerning dating / love / sex / marriage. You can’t. All you can do is push forward. Women need to do this too, but I don’t any will listen. Fellow sisters who have solid marriages need to start calling them out to change as well.

          Michael Dean:

          The reason WHY this topic is STILL active is because it indeed shows how SERIOUS this is our Faith today. Not being a jerk, or trying to “pick a fight” because I am not. Just stating a fact ;-)

    • Mickey says:

      Well said, Jason.

  96. Michael Dean says:


    I love that this discussion is still on going. Kyle, my heart breaks hearing about your loneliness. Anything that I offer in terms of advice would be trivial because of the pain you are experiencing. Ive got a feeling you are not looking for advice, but maybe just someone to sit with you in your pain. If I could sit with you in it, I would. I love that the other men on this thread are stepping up to support you. Let us know what we can do for you brother!

    I disagree wholeheartedly with the “”work on yourself”‘ and God will give you a woman”thing. That doesn’t make sense to me, it isnt the God I know and it isnt the Jesus I know. I believe that God’s heart breaks for your pain as do ours. I think the reason we are able to empathize together is because God has given us that capability. Empathizing is part of his nature.

    I originally wrote this to the 23 year old who over spiritualizes everything. I ran into a few guys back when I wrote this who over thought, over prayed and over analyzed their dating potentials. I had NO IDEA that men were having the experiences that you all are having. I hate it, I hate the shame the church puts on men, and my intention was never to contribute to that.

    Kyle we are here for you, lets keep the discussion going.


    • Kyle says:

      I debated all evening before reading this because I had a bad feeling of what someone was going to write, and I was dead on.

      After what Jason has said, I have no desire to say or read anything else here. He is basically saying that God is not going to do anything to help us, nor is he obligated to. Well, what about all the verses in the Bible which say he wants good things for his children, and will give us our heart’s desire? If Jason is the face of the modern “Christian”, then I have one more good reason to never set foot in a church again. He basically said it is all my fault, and what these women did was either because of me physically (I’m ugly), or because of something I did. Sure he says they’re shallow, but says there is something wrong with me to have them treat me the way they did. I do not appreciate him calling me a liar, which is exactly what he said when saying I really do not want a Christian woman to date, but a hot one and nothing else really matters. You don’t know me and what my priorities are when it comes to women and how dare you assume you do.

      After reading this tonight, I have no doubt I will not sleep yet again. Another little piece of what is left of me died tonight after reading that I have no chance and God will be no help, and then other agreed with him. What of me that still survives is getting smaller and smaller. With as poor as my health already is, I don’t know how much more stress, loneliness, and depression I can take before my body fails; not that anyone in this world would care or miss me except for the fact I wouldn’t be around to do stuff for them. At least now I can add one more person to the list of “Christians” who have deliberately hurt me.

      • Thomas says:

        I’m with you. The only women who have hurt me, were Christian. What did I do wrong? Asked them out. Maybe being born ugly and having a disease that destroyed my intestines so I can’t gain weight. I tested a Christian dating site and thought it was what I put in my profile, but first I changed my picture to a hot guy, but not my likes and interests. Lo and behold I got lots of winks and messages because of my looks. I might be untreated in looks, but if I have nothing in common, or other things I’m not interested. No girl seems interested in me. I’ve lowered my standard because the loneliness kicks in. Adding 10 diseases/disorders and a possibility I won’t be able to have kids just label me rejected yet I have to deal with the yearning for a mate.
        Ignore the idea that it is your fault. Sometimes you can’t control what happens. It sucks. It’s annoying that jerks get it easier. Don’t give up. Don’t blame yourself. Find ways to make yourself better but don’t blame yourself. God cares. Sorry for your pain. I’ve been there and still am.

  97. Michael Dean says:

    Inappropriate. You are going to be blocked from making comments.

  98. richard says:

    You man up and answer my statment

  99. richard says:

    My statement is so close to the truth it ruins your whole website ….the truth hurts bud

  100. Michael Dean says:

    Your comment was inappropriate. If you would like to take this conversation offline and off a public forum, I will answer it there. You can email us at


  101. Rockin R says:

    What happened to freedom of speech?

  102. Michael Dean says:

    Not when the comment is disrespectful to my wife and her blog which it was. If you had something constructive to say that would be a different issue but disrespect won’t be tolerated. I don’t even remember what the comment was because it wasn’t 2013, but I do remember that it was inappropriate for this type of setting.

  103. Michael Dean says:

    Kyle do not read Jason’s previous comment please. Jason, you need to stop brother. No need to respond the way you did and with the length you did. You were defensive and went way over the top.

    This blog post was mine, and Kyle, there are many more men here besides Jason who will empathize with you. Read previous comments. The point of these comments is not to point out where someone is wrong but uplift them. Jason, I am going to delete your comment and if you leave another one to that length I am going to block you from commenting all together. I understand you might think you are helping, but it id having the opposite effect.

    The goal is to uplift, not defend yourself and shame another man.


  104. Jason says:

    Are we uplifting or actually ENABLING?????

    Look. He can feel sad, and if you read some of my replies I am uplifting and I DO care.

    I am sure you didn’t meet your wife by living, acting and behaving like this.

    You’re welcome

  105. Michael Dean says:

    That’s the problem with online comments, we don’t know each other and make judgments based on what others write. Jason, its not your role to call someone out who’s life you don’t have any stake in. None of us have earned the right to tell Kyle what to do. He came to us hurting and we should reply by uplifting and being with him in it.


  106. Jason says:

    Point taken. Fair enough.

    I was in Kyle’s situation myself. It hurts. It’s real. It’s out there. I spent a lot of time depressed and very angry over it. While this anger was festering, bitterness set in badly. It drove me further from Christ. While I was being enabled, life was passing me by. I finally had to accept, change, or stay where I was.

    Look, I get annoyed with the state of dating in our Christian culture. There is a ton of blame to go around…..but I will not be held accountable for someone “losing their faith” because of their own choice and have it thrown on me.

    I’ll tone it down. I’ll sit back and lay out a few bars. Have a good day, and upcoming weekend.


  107. Michael Dean says:

    Thanks Jason! I appreciate you understanding. Have a good weekend as well.


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