Dear Christians defending Phil Robertson

Phil Robertson

Phil Robertson’s interview with GQ Magazine has ruffled quite a few feathers. If it wasn’t enough that he discussed race and culture in an offensive way, he went on to compare homosexuality to bestiality.

People are angry. Spit-fire comments and debates have filled up my news feeds. I’m sad seeing how the body of Christ looks this week. Finger-pointing has replaced love. Making a point has replaced wanting a relationship.

Here are my thoughts to the Christians defending Phil Robertson:

Dear Christians defending Phil Robertson,

Is this really what it looks like to be a Christian? To slander each other and shake our fingers and cross our arms, basking in our “rightness”?

Is defending Phil Robertson for his offensive comments and slamming people with Bible verses on social media what it looks like to follow Jesus?

I understand this thinking. I grew up in a church where it seemed we were against everything “for the Gospel”: gay people, sex, television, even democrats and UGA football. For years, I thought being a Christian was about putting people in their place and polishing my image.

But then, something changed. I awakened to the truth that the Gospel is an absurd love story. That God gave his only Son over to ridicule, torture and death that we may have life.

The Bible says that people outside the church will know Jesus because of our love for one another. Nothing else, just love.

Andy Stanley, pastor of North Point Community Church, has this incredible sermon called, “The Separation of Church and Hate” where he asks Christians a very poignant question, “Are you making a point or are you making a difference?”

When we slander gay people or write a post defending Phil Robertson who is cheering for us? Is it people outside the church? The people that are supposed to want what we have because of our love?

On the contrary, all those people think we’ve lost it, most that Christians are hateful and ignorant.

So who is cheering in defense of Phil Robertson’s offensive comments?

People inside the church who would rather make a point than make a difference. Making a point makes us not approachable, not loving, and certainly not humble.

We cannot be content to sit back behind our computers and make a point. As Christians, we are called to make a difference in people’s lives–and making a difference is usually slow and messy because when you’re meeting someone in the mud, in the darkness, in the betrayal, in the pain, they’ll need the healing power of Jesus flowing through you. They need us to be with them, not preach at them.

So let’s get away from dogmatic point-making and get back to what Jesus taught us to do: love radically and leave the results to our good Dad.

much love,

Ruthie

If you liked this post, you may also like:

Comments
195 Responses to “Dear Christians defending Phil Robertson”
  1. Lennette says:

    Thank you for this Ruthie. Christians in the United States are becoming some of the most mean-spirited, callous, dogmatic people that you would ever meet! I am a believer and American citizen so I can speak to this, as it is a disturbing trend i have seen played out consistently, especially in the last 5-6 years. It is so sad because the world looks at us and we are a joke in their eyes, and the church is irrelevant. Which is why on a Sunday morning you will find all the breakfast and brunch places packed out, lines out the door, without even a glance toward a church.

    What is even more sad and really disgusting is that we have become very hypocritical. Believers will DRAG the unbelieving world through the fires of hell and back for their sins, yet when confronted with our own we make all sorts of concessions and rationalizations. It’s all about the grace of God and and the blood of Jesus covering over everything, and then in the next second you will see a FB post by the same person blasting Democrats, GLBT’s, basically everything that doesn’t come under the umbrella of Evangelicalism. Most of the time I bypass all of those post which is nothing more than being argumentative, self-righteous and not to mention hurtful.

    Yes, there is a standard by which we are called to live, and help to uphold. However, we have missed the mark and it is definitely damaging the gospel message.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Thanks for your comment, Lennette. Goodness, how true it is that we are missing the point and damaging the radical, life-changing Gospel message.

      • Jorge says:

        Ruthie, so you think that what Phil did was without love, but what you are doing to Phil (criticizing his answer to a question in an interview) has much love in it? Is that what you are teaching here?

        • Euncie says:

          I have to say I agree with Jorge here. You are sorta doing the same thing you’re accusing. <3.

          • Britton says:

            The answer Phil gave is based on the poor english translation of a greek word that means someone who rapes their child slaves. It doesn’t even mean homosexual and no where in the new testament is that word used. Ignorance on so many levels… and for what? To hurt people with “God’s Word”

            Everyone thinks God is on his side, I’d wager God should often wonder who is on His.

        • Jose says:

          On the contrary, Jorge. She is not making a criticism about what Phil Robertson has said. She has made a criticism about the approach with which many Christians, including Phil, are handling those which are on-believers. To demoralize a group of people (homosexuals and blacks) who have found themselves in a struggle so rooted in hatred that it effects their way of life in a nation founded on the principles of freedom is appalling. And to allow someone who thinks blacks were content, whistling through the cotton fields and singing polly-wolly-doodle all the day, to be their representative and voice displays a wide array of ignorance to what truly occurred in this nation. And to believe this sort of behavior or thought process isn’t rooted in hatred is to turn a blind eye to the problem. Look at the assassinations that have occurred through out history on these issues. Harvey Milk – murdered by his own fellow city legislator for being a homosexual, Martin Luther King Jr. – assassinated for his stance on civil rights, Abraham Lincoln – assassinated for the abolition of slavery, John F. Kennedy – assassinated for his stance on civil rights. We have to understand that fueling such mentality does not advance our progression as people. And, if anything, I would say God definitely calls us to be a light in the world, not to corner and label people and turn a blind eye to their plight. Let us remember that the very Jesus we follow cured the blind (who were believed to be cursed by God for the sins of their parents), saved a woman who slept with married men from being stoned to her death, healed lepers who were outcasts from their towns and was relentless towards those who shunned others and defended themselves by using His Father’s name to defend themselves. So, what Ruthie is criticizing here (and I would hardly call it a criticism) is a mindset which is contradictory to what Phil Robertson claims to follow. And does she have love in what she is saying? Absolutely. In fact, to think otherwise is to have misread everything she wrote. Read it once more and see that this isn’t an attack on Phil Robertson. This is a call to arms for all Christians to reanalyze their need to put themselves on a pedestal and bring others to shame.

          • Genevieve says:

            I feel Phil was only saying he didn’t agree with the homosexuality. Not that he hated gays. Also being an African American, I do not believe he was being racist. I think he was asked questions in which he answered them. I don’t believe the man thought there was no racism when he grew up I think he ment that he didn’t see any racism at first hand sight. If I was to say a white person never called me a n word then I’d be called ignorant. And people would assume I think racism doesn’t exist. People have to understand that yes his comments offended people. But the reporters didn’t even put out everything that was said. Some peoples goal is to create as much controversy as possible for rates and things… I know that him saying being gay is a sin offended many. But that his his human and constitutional right to state opinion. He went on to say he does not and will not treat any one differently because of their choices of lifestyles. And it’s better to love. With everything the man said, I do not believe he should be attacked!! Everyone has different views and to attack anyone human for that view is absurd. Also I don’t agree with his suspension. It’s his constitutional right to state opinion so why is he getting punished for that?

          • Felicia says:

            Totally agree with Jose on this.

        • Breanne says:

          Agreeing with Jorge! You’re being a hypocrite…which is what you said not to be…soooo???

    • Justin says:

      You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell? (Matthew 23:33 NASB)
      Does anyone know who said this in the Bible? What if Phil would have said that instead of what he did say? You folks that like to pet sin would have a cow if Phil would have said this! Jesus told it like it was. True Christians should tell it like it is too. Scripture makes it clear that those who practice homosexuality, among other sins, will NOT go to heaven. For people to be afraid to say that is only hurting the sinner! That’s why our country is in the shape it’s in now! Start speaking the word with boldness!

      • Brian says:

        Your comment is simply confirning what this post is saying. If you are goin to stand an point your finger at everyone that has different views than you, how many people do you think will follow you? As far as what’s wrong with this country? NOTHING! This country was founded on Freedom of Religion. That means that all people have the right to live here and practice thier own beliefs without persecution! I see no difference between a religious person and an American. Nor do I see a difference between Non religious people and Americans.

        • Justin says:

          If you don’t like what Jesus had to say, then that’s a totally different subject. My post was mainly aimed a people who claim to be Christians yet they are afraid of truth and try to make Christ out to be a pansy, sin petter. He wasn’t. He told the Pharisees the truth about themselves. Truth will always trump lies and deception. Anyone who claims Christianity, yet believes continuing is sin is ok, is deceived.

          • Michael says:

            Do you wear clothes of mixed fabrics? (Deuteronomy 22:11) Do you eat pork? (Leviticus 11:7-8) Have any Tattoos? (Leviticus 19:28) Do you labor on the Sabbath? (Exodus 31:14-15) Had your penis cut off? (Deuteronomy 23:1 ) Have a rounded haircut or beard? (Leviticus 19:27) Gossip? (Leviticus 19:16) Remarry? (Mark 10:11-12) Know any women that speak in church? (1 Corinthians 14:34-35) Eat shellfish? (Leviticus 10-11 states)

            All of these things are pretty plainly laid out pretty explicitly as “not cool” as far as Jesus is concerned.

          • SL says:

            Hey Michael, perhaps you should check into the New Covenant sometime. It’s what Christians follow. FYI, we’re not ancient Jews. ; )

      • Ashley says:

        But Jesus also died for the Pharisees. If we are not willing to lay down our lives for people who we disagree with then what right do we have to throw scripture at them? Also I’ve never heard of one homosexual coming to know Jesus from reading a Christian argument on FB or wherever. I have however heard of homosexuals coming to Jesus through someone loving them unconditionally until they were led by the Holy Spirit to leave their old ways. I’m not saying we shouldn’t speak truth, but if it is without love or just for the sake of us being right then we are sadly mistaken. There is also a way to speak truth in a way that honors people and does not de-value them. Christians need to be called to a higher standard of love before we can call the world to a higher standard of living. Cheers!

        • susan says:

          “leave their old ways”, as in, go back into the closet? No one ever stops being gay. They might be able to stop being outwardly gay with a lot of effort.

      • kevin says:

        Justin, maybe you should go re-read the ‘cast the first stone’ parable over again. Jesus gave love, compassion, and defense to those who had perhaps committed sin. He did NOT ‘tell it like it is (rather as you interpret it)’. The view you have taken is the same which has driven many, including myself, into private worship and reverence, or away from Christianity altogether. Your job is to mission, preach, and love, and specifically not to judge, hate, and cast stones. Focus your energy on outreach and you will be living out a much more fulfilling and earnest life in his steps.

        Ruthie, I love the way you describe the gospel as an absurd love story. Thank you for your message.

        • John says:

          What should be a person who follows Jesus and believes this is wrong do next?

          #1 – Pray for Phil and his family as I am sure they are getting way more attention than they ever imagined they would.

          #2 – Do not attack A&E or be hateful towards them in any way…JESUS said they will know we are Christians by the love we show, not the venom we throw.

          #3 – Publicly support Phil on social media by expressing love, support and prayers (NOT hate filled comments) by using #standwithphil

          ​#4 – Understand that the issue of sexual immorality is NOT a political football to be tossed around…but rather a serious issue with which people have deep hurt, regret and pain associated with ANY type of sexually immoral sin.

          #5 – Do not fear a conversation with someone who may see sexuality differently than you. AND…do not try to bash them with the Bible…because, you may “win the argument” but lose the relationship.

          #6 – Do not be afraid to share your views (when asked) in a non-hateful, non-condemning way. Because…

          #7 – God does NOT “hate fags.” He hates sin…because He KNOWS the long-term damage it causes, the life it robs us of…and because (MOST OF ALL) it cost Him the blood of His SON!

          Christmas season is a reminder that GOD cares and is deeply concerned for all of us (even those who do not believe JUST like we believe!) If you are a follower of Christ…let’s stand solid on this without communicating hate, that’s what Jesus did…and HIS impact is still changing the world!

        • Justin says:

          So you only want to pay attention to that one line? This is the problem with Christians and those who claim Christianity today. You just want to ignore where Jesus is stern and blunt? JESUS called the Pharisees hypocrites, white washed tombs, a brood of vipers and told them they were going to hell. So stop making Jesus out to be a sin petting pansy. He wasn’t. He told the truth AND loved people. Christians who think homosexuals, or any other open, willful sinners, are saved is deceived. REPENTANCE is necessary for true salvation. You need to understand the truth Kevin. Don’t be deceived into believing homosexuality is ok as long as you say some magical prayer.

      • Pamela says:

        All meaning is context dependent: Jesus’ diatribe in Matthew 23 was actually spoken to the Scribes and Pharisees, not the “sinners”. Those words were reserved for the religious leaders of his time. Those were the people who had power and wealth on their side. He also called them in the same chapter “hypocrites” and “white washed tombs.” His harshest words were always reserved for those in power, the ones who felt it necessary to moderate everyone else, insuring that everyone else didn’t “sin” while never looking at the vileness of their own lives, which was Jesus’ point when he called them “white-washed tombs.”

        “Woe to you, scribes & Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.”

        Jesus spoke as a prophet in the tradition of Isaiah – the same fellow who stated, “Ah! You who make iniquitous decrees, who write oppressive statutes, to turn aside the needy from justice and rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be your spoil, and that you may make the orphans your prey!”

        This book, the Bible, was never meant to be used as a weapon against those whom we don’t like, or don’t approve of, or who’s lifestyle we don’t approve of. This book is designed to introduce us to this man, Jesus, who wants to transform us into a people who know how to love – who know how lay aside our own little personal agendas of ideology and bigotry, and begin to look and speak and act like Jesus. Do we wish to speak boldly the Word? Then we speak of the transformation that God has brought about in our lives – how he has transformed the brokenness of our lives and made it into something beautiful. That’s bold preaching. That declaring the kingdom of God. Pointing self-righteous fingers at people who struggle w/ areas of brokenness (or who don’t struggle and don’t actually give 2 cares what we think) is not proclaiming God’s kingdom. It proclaims another kingdom – our own self-righteous kingdom.

        • Justin says:

          You think we should speak like Christ, yet you are making excuses for what Jesus spoke. It’s time for true Christians to speak with boldness. Homosexuality is a sin. Sorry…I don’t make the rules. Jesus told it like it was, so should we. Sorry…the truth hurts sometimes. Stop telling the sick they are ok when they are dying. People need to know they are sick and there is a Physician that heals and delivers. Stop misleading people.

      • Jerry says:

        I would not want to worship a God that I need to be “afraid” of, I will choose my own path then to chose fear.

    • John says:

      What should be a person who follows Jesus and believes this is wrong do next?

      #1 – Pray for Phil and his family as I am sure they are getting way more attention than they ever imagined they would.

      #2 – Do not attack A&E or be hateful towards them in any way…JESUS said they will know we are Christians by the love we show, not the venom we throw.

      #3 – Publicly support Phil on social media by expressing love, support and prayers (NOT hate filled comments) by using #standwithphil

      ​#4 – Understand that the issue of sexual immorality is NOT a political football to be tossed around…but rather a serious issue with which people have deep hurt, regret and pain associated with ANY type of sexually immoral sin.

      #5 – Do not fear a conversation with someone who may see sexuality differently than you. AND…do not try to bash them with the Bible…because, you may “win the argument” but lose the relationship.

      #6 – Do not be afraid to share your views (when asked) in a non-hateful, non-condemning way. Because…

      #7 – God does NOT “hate fags.” He hates sin…because He KNOWS the long-term damage it causes, the life it robs us of…and because (MOST OF ALL) it cost Him the blood of His SON!

      Christmas season is a reminder that GOD cares and is deeply concerned for all of us (even those who do not believe JUST like we believe!) If you are a follower of Christ…let’s stand solid on this without communicating hate, that’s what Jesus did…and HIS impact is still changing the world!

    • Scott Jones says:

      Ruthie, I would like to take this opportunity not to condemn anyone but rather clarify a couple of things regarding Phil’s interview with GQ Magazine. You started your prose by stating “Phil Robertson’s interview with GQ Magazine has ruffled quite a few feathers. If it wasn’t enough that he discussed race and culture in an offensive way”. Quite frankly I do not see his interview as offensive to anyone. The man stated his belief according to what scripture dictates and says. That is all he was guilty of. If anyone took offense to that then that should be their issue to resolve. Is it not offensive to Christians to bare witness to Gay Pride marches in the streets of our cities, yet no one writes about this as being offensive.?
      I was raised as a Christian. Do I believe that homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God? Most certainly I do. Do I condemn those that are within that lifestyle? Most certainly I DO NOT. As is taught and read within the Bible itself, God and only God will be the judge of us all. I have seen bits and pieces of where people think that his comments were inappropriate but these people did not bother to hear the man in his entirety. I do believe that Phil eluded, or it can be ascertained, to the fact that it is not himself that will be the judge by the Almighty himself. He stated that all humanity should be loved and that God loves us all. This part no one is speaking about including yourself.
      It is very shameful that people only respond to those little parts of a conversation rather than the conversation as a whole. This is the reason that Christians unite behind the man for they know from whence he speaks.
      I realize that it is your job and others jobs to write articles either condemning or supporting a persons view points. I do understand; however, I do not agree with your position. I am reminded of a saying my father had that sticks with me to day. He always said that journalist and the media were “whores” and that they would sell their sole for a story to write or talk about regardless of its correctness. I am finding my fathers words, whether callous or degrading, to be more true than ever now a days.
      Report the entire story with an objectionable viewpoint and people will listen. Report the story to gain attention and receive responses like mine now. You will have your supporters and your detractors yes. The news, the media, reporters were once an entity that viewed things objectionably. This is not the case these days and this is in part the reason there is so darn much dissension in our world today. Let us keep the masses divided for we will always have a job in doing so.

    • Michelle says:

      Thanks Ruthie. I’m sure Phil Robertson is a decent man, he has every right to express his views and beliefs, but what is sad is the disdain in which he did it. He could have gotten his point across by using different words. And sadly the gains that GLAAD and LGBT have made for the homosexual community are diminished by their constant disdain for the heterosexual community. There is such a huge riff in this country, in all aspects; gays, straight, Democrats, Republicans, black, white, Hispanic etc… No one wants to work together any more, no one wants to take the time and see other side of the coin. This isn’t what the Lord wants. It’s sad and scary the path this country is walking down.

    • Ralph Auer says:

      I think that those of you that are finding should actually read the interview.There were no racial slurs he only spoke of what he witnessed, those of you that don’t believe a black farm worker could be happy have no true relationship with Christ.our happiness is not dependent on our circumstances but on who we are in Him. Please read the whole article not just what the media wants you to see.

  2. T. Webb says:

    Dear Ruthie, AMEN!!!

  3. Maggie says:

    I completely disagree. As Christians, we are supposed to speak truth and stand up for what is right. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and that’s all he said. He shouldn’t be punished for telling people the truth.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      At what cost? There is so much disagreement about what the Bible says and doesn’t say, but everyone is in agreement that if people think about us and don’t think “WOW, LOOK HOW THEY LOVE PEOPLE” then we’re doing something wrong.

      • Steven says:

        I agree in part with both perspectives. As Christians, we have a responsibility to speak Truth and abide in it. However, in so doing we need to be loving in our approach. To speak out against homosexuality, in my opinion, is okay if it’s done appropriately. To stand silent is to do what modern society does when it sees something against its values. No one is brave enough to call it how they see it. Look at discipline of children. To correct your child in public or private is considered “damaging” to their personality. The result? Well, I think we all see the future generation running a direction we really would rather not see with selfishness at the core.

        In staying on topic, I work a profession that is much different than your average 9-5 job. What I do is irrelevant, but suffice to say it is not your average atmosphere. In this setting, co-workers speak freely as you would with family and I work with an individual who is Christian. However, this gentleman takes no stand ever against anything and shows an attitude of love towards even outright atrocities. For instance, if you curse, discuss pornography, etc. this man will sit there and laugh with you and not condemn any of it. The result? The individuals who do this in front of the Christian man laugh at him behind their backs. They come to me and complain saying that they themselves are agnostic, non-religious, etc. yet they can’t help but mock and laugh at this Christian man’s apathy. They point to his lack luster concern for his beliefs because he doesn’t condemn what they know he holds as being sin. Through his silence, they feel he condones it. They are not looking for approval, their own lusts have fulfilled that. They actually want him to take a stand for his beliefs. Some have even said that they would not consider becoming Christians because why would they want to profess something where they can’t even hold to their beliefs and state them openly?

        In closing, yes there is love, but then there is such an oppressed notion of not even calling black or white what it is that we lose any influence whatsoever. The notion that as Christians we must just accept everything is the same agenda that radical liberals adopt. If that is the stand taken, that is hardly Christianity, but rather a Roman Empire approach of worship whatever god you choose, service your belly and lusts before others, and take what you can from the government while it is there lavishing you with pleasure because no one will judge you for it. As a quote from Gladiator goes, “Give them games and they will love you for it.” This is not Christian love, this is an apathetic approach to being too afraid to love our fellow brothers and sisters enough to risk being ridiculed and viewed as haters by the radicals. I don’t condone hating homosexuals or any other person that may break Biblical laws, but I do hate their sin.

        End Statement: I have a few close homosexual friends who ACCEPT my stance. They are okay with the fact that I believe they are living in sin, but there is not any question concerning my love for them. They actually respect me for it. The result? A very functional friendship in which I interact with them freely and we mutually respect each other’s position. They clearly know that I disapprove of their actions, but love them as God’s children.

        Maturity is the key here. We cannot hate and expect to be Christ’s witnesses, but we cannot just sit idle because we are afraid that our beliefs will hamper those who are too immature to be willing to accept that not everyone has to agree with their actions. There is such thing as tough love and this world is in much more need of it. Again, look at parenting and the end result of parents who do no discipline in their household.

        • Jonathan Johnston says:

          I agree.

        • Marci says:

          You’re a hypocrite. You call yourself a friend but you are merely tolerating the existence of the so-called friends you have who happen to be gay because you really do not accept their lifestyle. You are no better than the person at work who does not stand up for his real beliefs and let’s his coworkers mock him behind his back. What makes you think that your gay friends don’t turn around and mock you when you leave their presence knowing how you really feel, Mr High & Mighty? Wow. You need to take a good long, hard, look in a mirror!!

          • Steven says:

            Marci, words cannot describe the Christian love I feel in your post.

            As an alternative thought, as it seems a nation is incensed over the casual comments of a redneck while on an ATV ride, let’s consider the source (of the article). Reading this article in its entirety reveals that it is written by an individual who through his choice use of words at times and his confessed apathy for following any sort of religion leaves much to be desired. We cannot place motives on an individual, but it is fair to say that this author who spends one day with Phil has much to gain by representing Christianity in any light other than profitable. What God deprived society doesn’t want to hear their lack of Godly enthusiasm justified by the wrongdoing actions of a professing Christian? So, before we attack Phil, let’s consider the source. I’m not denying Phil’s words, but there’s much to be said about context. We are given clips of quotes from Mr. Robertson, not entire dialogue or background leading up to his “hateful sentiments” (which I digress). What I find amazing is how so many Christians are willing to join the firing squad that seems to have been headed up by a man who does not even openly proclaim to be a Christian. What’s next? A band of Christians standing behind an anti-Christ who likewise interviews a Christian and finds fault with him? Let’s use logic here.

          • Heather says:

            I don’t agree that he is a hypocrite at all. I am not a Christian and don’t believe or agree with half of the junk that is preached, but I still have friends and family members that are very strong Christians. I still love them and except them and they know how I feel and they still love and except me. How is this any different than a Christian that believes homosexuality is a sin but still loves their friend/family member despite of that?

            This whole Phil thing has had me baffled on why everything has to be so black and white. There is a lot of grey in life. I think Duck Dynasty is a funny show. The guys on there remind me of a lot of my family…a lot of whom are just as closed minded as he is, but once again I still love them all the same. I don’t look to the show for my religious fix…just for a few laughs. Now that Phil has come out and confirmed what I had always assumed he thought, should I now not think he is funny just because I don’t agree with what he thinks?

      • Timothy Wright says:

        Are you serious, Jesus was the most loving person EVER and they killed HIM. To make a difference in this world, you first have to make a point, be it by your deeds or your words. With your blog, which I enjoy, I believe you are trying to make a difference with what you say, but to do so you have to make a point or what the’s use coming here, if all you talk about are puppies and rainbows. The world loves darkness. All this man was was saying, is that you who believe in homosexuality as a normative expression of human sexuality are in the dark, and will not not inherit the kingdom of God.

      • John says:

        I didn’t know what the Bible said was up for my agreement or disagreement, Ruthie.
        You can stand up for the truth and still love people, and I think Phil has done that very well.

      • Jimmy says:

        What cost? You act as if God’s will and kingdom won’t come to pass if we don’t somehow do ‘his’ work. That’s complete B..S. God doesn’t need us, he’s a big boy. No one is entitled to an opinion anymore. Political correctness has crushed Free Speech.

      • Angie Long says:

        I am afraid the world isn’t seeing a lot of love from Christians right now. I think the greatest stumbling block for many in terms of becoming part of the body of Christ is Christians, or those who profess to be, who are too busy to getting into hysterics over incidents over this, rather than reaching out to really make a difference in the world by meeting the physical and emotional needs of those hurting, as well as their spiritual needs. Disdain by non-Christians? Yes, it’s there. But there seems to be just as much of it shown by Christians. I like your post very much, Ruthie, thanks for it.

    • Rachel says:

      Maggie,

      He did say some things that are true, but some things about race and homosexuality weren’t loving at all. It’s one thing to say the truth, but it’s another to make jokes. At the end of the day Christ says to love one another. These comments aren’t loving in my opinion.

      • Maggie says:

        Isn’t it loving to tell someone that what they are doing is leading down a path towards suffering? Perhaps towards hell? The truth will never be popular and we should stand by people who are being persecuted for speaking truth.

        • Tom says:

          Is it our job to tell people what they are doing wrong? I don’t think so. It’s not my job to tell people how they should live or what is right or wrong for them. My job is to love them. It’s God’s job to tell each individual what He wants you to do or not to do. If we love people well and don’t take judgement, but be there and help them grow their relationship with Christ, isn’t that more effective? If I am asked my opinion by that person on the topic, I will show them what Scripture says about it, but I won’t tell them, “You better stop.” Not our job. This is how I look at it, Do you wash before you shower? What’s the point? You take a shower to get clean, no need to wash before hand. The same with Christ. We love people, show them who Christ is by our actions. Let God wash off what He wants changed in that person’s life. If they are truly seeking Him, He will speak to them! Love and grace doesn’t mean meek and weak, but judging and telling people how they need to live isn’t Christ either. Love people well!

        • Rachel says:

          This post by Ruthie is really getting at how Christians should respond. I believe what the Bible says wholeheartedly on this issue. We should always stand firm on God’s word, but it should be in a loving way. The whole “Stand with Phil” movement is extreme. Should Christians really stand behind someone that made inappropriate racial remarks? He also makes inappropriate remarks about homosexuality. This is a real struggle for people that are in the church why poke fun at it? I’m not even gay, but if someone pointed at my sin the way he did it would hurt.

          • SL says:

            If you compare the actual biological purpose for the anus compared to the vagina, you’ll understand why Phil said it was illogical. Basically, because science says it’s illogical.

          • Marty says:

            Why focus on the way Christians are responding to this controversy? It is not intolerant Christians who got him fired. It is the intolerant G.L.A.D. organization that started the attack. The press then piled on like wolves on a carcass. Christians are responding to this controversy because it appears that he was fired due to his Biblical views.

  4. John S says:

    Ruthie, as a gay Christian I cannot tell you how much this post means to me. Thank you for reminding all the haters (LOL) what the BIble says and reminding us all to love one another. This interview was especially painful for me, because I’m black so anyways….its just crazy how Jesus gets misrepresented and the things Christians choose to hang their hats on.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Hi John!! Thanks for sharing your story. I can only imagine how painful this week has been for you.

      • Euncie says:

        And how painful it has been for many believers as well…right, Ruthie? Do you have love for the brethren? For The Lord and His word? God bless you!

      • SL says:

        Funny how you didn’t use the 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 argument on this guy, a gay “christian.”

    • Jorge says:

      a Gay Christian!? I am new to this term, how is that possible? I’m not asking to persecute you, I am interested in the subject that’s all.

      • Jonathan M. says:

        Tell me what the sin is in homosexuality? Is it simply stating one is gay? or is it a sexual sin? If it is a sexual sin then it is no different than straight unwed couples having sex outside of marriage … so there must not be any Christians that had sex outside of marriage. How about a couple who divorce simply because they are tired of each other (not a Biblical reason for divorce) …both remarry and are now Christians …married to someone not sanctioned Biblically …there must not be any divorcee Christians either then. I am a gay Christian …I love the Lord very much and God has done some incredible things in my life. My relationship with Christ has blossomed since I stopped living an inauthentic lifestyle. I have been in a committed monogimous relationship with my partner (since I cannot get married) …and guess what God continues to use me, guide me, protect me, teach me, etc.

        • Cameron A. says:

          What is the sin in alcoholism, Is it stating one is an alcoholic or is it excessive drinking? If it is excessive drinking than it is no different than gluttony, right? But, since the alcoholic has stopped drinking and driving and decided to get drunk at home makes everything okay, right? No, being gay is a sin whether the person is sleeping around or in a monogamous relationship. By having to justify your sexuality by what heterosexual Christians do then that proves that you believe your lifestyle is somehow wrong. The definition of Christian is Christ like; therefore, if being gay is Christ like then there is no need to state that you are a gay Christian.

          • Jose says:

            This isn’t a form of justification. Jonathan is merely trying to put it in terms you’ll understand. Much like when a child learns the ABC’s from Elmo singing a song on Sesame Street. Maybe if he sang you a song about what being gay and Christian means while using a muppet, you’ll be able to wrap your head around it.

        • SL says:

          “Go and sin no more.” Some people just don’t get that concept. I wonder if the lady at the well kept living a life of adultery or if she decided to follow Christ and stop sinning? You can’t have both sin and salvation, Jonathan. It’s one or the other. 1 Cor. 5:11-13

      • kati says:

        are you trying to be stupid? same as you are a lying christian (or any other sin you do), he is a gay christian, someone who believes in god. and whomever the idiot was up there that said gays can’t go to heaven obviously hasn’t read john 3:16, but i digress, christians and their illogical cultish ways won’t ever see the truth even if it slaps them upside the head. watch the movie “religulous” (its on netflix if you care) it opened my christian eyes to other ways of thinking in this world. i couldn’t be happier, and i don’t have to deny people basic rights to be this way! score!

        • Justin says:

          You can’t just take one verse from the Bible and make it say what you want. You have to take all scripture to have understanding. God loved the world so much he sent His only son Jesus, yes (John 3:16). But Hebrews 10:26, 27 is clear about continuing in willful sin. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26, 27 NASB) The person who struggles with the temptation of homosexuality and the person who practices the sin are very different. If a person claims to be a Christian yet has no problem with sin, they are not a true believer. Do you believe a serial murderer that has no conviction for what they are doing is going to heaven? God can and will deliver anyone from anything. As long as he/she wants it. Don’t be deceived. Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven. But those who do the will of the Father. Repent of your sins and ask Jesus to forgive you. Be BORN AGAIN.

    • Musicman says:

      If it was so wrong why did God make them homosexual in the first place? Thats like saying its a sin to be black or white….. Im sorry I disagree that homosexuality is a sin even though scripture says it… I’m straight by the way…. i have many homosexual friends who’s relationships are most the time way more loving than the straight couples I know. My girlfriend commented that the Duck Dynasty guys are good christians with strong christian beliefs….. well I’m sorry but my idea of a good christian is different than hers. The first rule of thumb as a Christian is to Love. How God loves us is how we should love each other….. and if God created people with a natural affection towards the same gender…..why do we need to judge their actions of affection as demerits? There are plenty of “good christians” out there…. but the ones who show the most compassion…. the love….the caring affection towards those despite their gender, race, ethnicity, social ranking, ext…. are the good christians that I know are out there spreading the true word of God.

      • Steven says:

        I’m sorry you feel that way. I was born with the natural tendencies towards lots of sin to name a few: lust, anger, greed, hatred, etc. I know the Bible says these are wrong, but I have had some pretty loving lustful encounters and so I do not consider these sinful. I was born with fallen human nature and the desire to sleep around with beautiful women so since God “made me” like this how can He judge me? Just to clarify, this is written with sarcasm. Please look at the blatant fallacy you are proposing. I think the scariest part of your post is, “Im sorry I disagree that homosexuality is a sin even though scripture says it.” The sad part is, it doesn’t matter what you or I think. It matters what God says. I’m not going to be judged by you nor you by me, but we both will be judged in accordance to how we lived are lives according to God’s law (which is found in the Scriptures).

    • John says:

      What should be a person who follows Jesus and believes this is wrong do next?

      #1 – Pray for Phil and his family as I am sure they are getting way more attention than they ever imagined they would.

      #2 – Do not attack A&E or be hateful towards them in any way…JESUS said they will know we are Christians by the love we show, not the venom we throw.

      #3 – Publicly support Phil on social media by expressing love, support and prayers (NOT hate filled comments) by using #standwithphil

      ​#4 – Understand that the issue of sexual immorality is NOT a political football to be tossed around…but rather a serious issue with which people have deep hurt, regret and pain associated with ANY type of sexually immoral sin.

      #5 – Do not fear a conversation with someone who may see sexuality differently than you. AND…do not try to bash them with the Bible…because, you may “win the argument” but lose the relationship.

      #6 – Do not be afraid to share your views (when asked) in a non-hateful, non-condemning way. Because…

      #7 – God does NOT “hate fags.” He hates sin…because He KNOWS the long-term damage it causes, the life it robs us of…and because (MOST OF ALL) it cost Him the blood of His SON!

      Christmas season is a reminder that GOD cares and is deeply concerned for all of us (even those who do not believe JUST like we believe!) If you are a follower of Christ…let’s stand solid on this without communicating hate, that’s what Jesus did…and HIS impact is still changing the world!

  5. Margaret says:

    I LOVE ANDY STANLEY AND I LOVE YOU, RUTHIE DEAN!!!! Everyone should read this post because I wasn’t able to articulate what I was thinking about all this controversy until now.

  6. Samuel says:

    HE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS. If he got on there and slandered Christians, do you think A&E would have pulled him from the show??? Of course not. We have selective tolerance.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Hi Samuel, thank you for your opinion. Of course he can say whatever he wants, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences. If he said any of those things in a workplace, he would be facing stricter consequences (at least, hopefully). Sure, freedom of speech is everyone’s right but that doesn’t mean what you say isn’t damaging.

      • Meredith says:

        EXACTLY Ruthie! And what’s even more troublesome and angering to me is the way I see many christians LUNGE to his defense of free speech but don’t seem to get nearly as passionate about other social justice issues that are close to God’s heart: human/child trafficking, poverty, lack of access to clean water. I’m guilty of not being angry and proactive about these things too myself. This communicates to the world what our priorities as Christians are.

        • Kirsten says:

          History has demonstrated that freedom leads to decreases in poverty and access to clean water. Consider the U.S. and Western Europe in comparison to communist countries or other countries where freedom is restricted. Please consider the relationship between freedom and these “social issues” rather than isolating issues before diminishing the importance of freedom of speech.

  7. Jenny says:

    Oh, Ruthie. Thank you for this beautiful post. Let’s get back to “letting the healing power of Christ flow through us”, shall we?

  8. Sayre says:

    EXACTLY. DEAD ON. I love everything about you, Ruthi DEAN! Everyone should read this post.

  9. Rachel says:

    Awesome post Ruthie! I stand by what the Bible says, but I also want to be loving towards people. I think there is a reason why Christ calls us to love. The posts I’ve been seeing on my news feed make me cringe. I didn’t even know what duck dynasty was until a couple days ago. Thank you!!

  10. Tommy says:

    A lot of things have changed since I was 15 in the church. The church and the Christian was once revered and now we are looked down on as we are wrong. We serve a great and mighty God that is all powerful and He commands us to go into the world preaching the gospel without fear. Too many people are keeping their mouths shut and/or siding and allowing things to continue that should not be happening. I guess if Daniel would have been quit then he wouldn’t have went to the lion’s den but then again he didn’t have anything to worry about there either. I guess if Paul would have kept his mouth shut then he wouldn’t have went to prison but it looks as if the Lord took care of that also.
    What I can’t understand is when a Christian speaks his mind it’s bashing and slandering but when it comes from the other side then it’s ok. Just the same as when a white person talks about a black it’s racism but turn the tables and it’s again accepted.
    Ruthie, I like and read your post but I am going to have to disagree with you this time. I believe a lot of what’s going on in our nation today is a result of keeping our mouth shut. Let me add, however, I do believe there is a proper way (in a loving manner) to deliver the love of Jesus.
    When did we as Christians start believing that we have to keep our mouth shut to preach the gospel or…… is that another tactic of Satan….. Just a thought.

    • Marquis says:

      Great point Tommy! Nowhere in the Bible does it instruct us to be silent about our faith, on the contrary it calls us to boldly proclaim the Gospel! (2 Corinthians 3:12, Acts 4:29, Acts 13:46, Acts 14:3, Acts 19:8, Acts 28:31)

    • Tom says:

      Tommy,
      I don’t really think it’s about being silent. He was asked a question, He answered it. Did he answer the question the best way? Up for debate. I think he could have chose a better way. It wasn’t about Daniel being silent, it was about him praying to God and not to the king. Different scenario here.
      Nothing new is under the sun. Why are we so surprised when this stuff happens????? It happened in Jesus’ day and will only get worse. The best example I can think of is this. The adulterous woman that the leaders wanted stoned, Jesus said, He who is without sin, throw the 1st stone. The people left. Jesus then asked her, “Where are your accusers?” They left, she answered. Jesus said, neither do I. Go and sin no more. Jesus qualified Himself by disqualifying everyone else. He showed her love. Isn’t this how we should respond???? Just a thought.

  11. Paul says:

    Hey Ruthie, this is my first time to your blog, but I read a couple of them. I agree with much of what you’ve written, but in reality, we all “shake our fingers and …bask in our ‘righteousness”. I think that’s the appeal of writing blogs and the primary reason for ‘Comments’ – so we can do one or the other. When you think of Phil Robertson, please remember what you posted recently: “So may you have the courage this holiday season to be imperfect. To tell your whole story, knowing deep in your heart that you are worth loving. For in this, you will be able to rest, knowing you are enough.”

  12. Cameron A says:

    I read some of the comments and I don’t understand what a gay Christian is. That is like a person saying they are an alcoholic Christian, a drug dealing Christian, a gangster Christian, an abusive Christian, a prostitute Christian, etc. If we call ourseives Christians then we are called to live outside of sin. Not to say that we do not sin, but it certainly does not make sense to identify ourselves with our sins when Jesus died so that we can live free from the bonds of sin.

    • Marquis says:

      Exactly Cameron! This sense of passive love and acceptance has dealt a tremendous blow to the body of Christ; however Christ promised us that the straight and narrow path would be difficult. False prophets walk among us, twisting the beautiful message of the Gospel to fit the desires of society and it is outrageous. As you said, none of us are perfect and we are all going to struggle, but there are certain commandments that we must abide by without digression, namely refraining from homosexual tendencies, adultery, cruelty, etc. etc. Again, excellent point!

      • Mel says:

        I must agree with you too. I was a bit taken back. This is no grey area in the bible. When we accept Christ, we take on His identity – forgive of sin and under His mercy and grace. I believe in loving the person, hating the sin. But if we don’t learn to speak the hard truths of God’s word in love we are going to love people straight into Hell. Very good points Marquis and Cameron A.

        • Kirsten says:

          Agreed. Additionally, our identity is not in our specific sin– we are all either sinners or sinners in Christ.

          • Timothy Wright says:

            Hi Kirsten,

            Jesus calls us friends, our identity is as Sons of the Father and a Brother to Christ. As a Christian, I do sin, but I have been invited into the love of the Trinity. Thats my identity.

          • Kirsten says:

            Timothy, this is my point. We need to quit isolating the sin and recognize that in order to truly be a Christian, we are relinquishing sin and moving toward Christ-likeness. Homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, “homosexual Christian” just doesn’t make sense. “Christian who struggles with the sin of homosexuality” does. This also applies to “liar Christian” versus “Christian who struggles with the sin of lying”…and all other sins. They’re all the same in God’s eyes…we need to quit splitting hairs and also be willing to speak and own the truth.

          • Kirsten says:

            * Our identity is not defined by our sin but by whether we are “Sinners” or “sinners in Christ”

          • Andrew says:

            Hi Guys,

            I just thought I’d clarify the difference between “homosexual christian” and “liar christian,” as you seem a bit confused (And I’m not insulting you by any means). Lying, committing adultery, etc are all things that people do purposefully and intentionally and can quickly be changed by, just, choosing not to lie for example. Saying that homosexuals are going to hell is like saying all people with blonde hair are going to hell. They cannot physically change their hair color (they can dye it) and they physically cannot find the opposite sex attractive (they can fake it). Think about that internal, immediate sense of attraction that YOU feel when you see an attractive member of the opposite sex. You, no matter what you “choose” cannot have this feeling when you see a member of the same sex. Think about it, could you start having gay feelings even if you tried? NO! UNLESS YOU ARE GAY! I know I couldn’t. Likewise, a gay male man CANNOT look at a women and have that feeling of attraction anymore than he can concentrate and turn his hair a different color. Basically what your saying is that these people were BORN sinners, and Jesus would not create people who were born to go to hell with nothing they can do, I’m sorry. That being said, saying “lying christian” is wrong because it is physically and mentally possible to change whether you lie.

          • Andrew says:

            I just thought I’d clarify the difference between “homosexual christian” and “liar christian,” as some of you seem a bit confused (And I’m not insulting you by any means). Lying, committing adultery, etc are all things that people do purposefully and intentionally and can quickly be changed by, just, choosing not to lie for example. Saying that homosexuals are going to hell is like saying all people with blonde hair are going to hell. They cannot physically change their hair color (they can dye it) and they physically cannot find the opposite sex attractive (they can fake it). Think about that internal, immediate sense of attraction that YOU feel when you see an attractive member of the opposite sex. You, no matter what you “choose” cannot have this feeling when you see a member of the same sex. Think about it, could you start having gay feelings even if you tried? NO! UNLESS YOU ARE GAY! I know I couldn’t. Likewise, a gay male man CANNOT look at a women and have that feeling of attraction anymore than he can concentrate and turn his hair a different color. Basically what your saying is that these people were BORN sinners, and Jesus would not create people who were born to go to hell with nothing they can do, I’m sorry. That being said, saying “lying christian” is wrong because it is physically and mentally possible to change whether you lie.

          • Racheal says:

            As Christians, we are to bring every thought captive. In saying this, Paul doesn t differentiate between heterosexuals and homosexuals- we are ALL called to do this. A heterosexual Christian man sees sexy women all day, every day and has to fight this battle for his mind, to bring his thoughts under the lordship of Christ. The fact that those sexual thoughts come to him naturally doesnt justify them, or excuse him from having to turn to Christ with them. The same is required of Christians who have homosexual thoughts.

        • Timothy Wright says:

          Dan,

          We are responsible for what we do, homosexual acts are condemned in the Bible. We live in fallen world, I have many feelings that I know are not from the Holy Spirit. But I am responsible whether I act on them or not. Experiencing sex is not a Christian Right. We have no rights. We are dead to sin and alive to Christ. The western world is enabling people who have these gender identity issues to believe that what they feel is their identity. They are deceived. Satan is a liar. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. These people need amazing amounts of love and compassion from true followers of Christ, not the tolerance that society espouses. They need to be told, they are not truly alive in Christ until they identify with Christ in His death. That what they feel should not determine what they do, but Christ dying on the cross freed them from the power of the enemy. This is true for all Christians.

          These issues will divide the body of Christ into two camps. Those who embrace the LGBTQ narrative and those who follow the teachings of the Church of Christ for over 2000 years.

          Tim

          • Kirsten says:

            Andrew,

            Timothy and Rachael have addressed your point. Homosexuality is a choice. The temptation to engage in the sin and the act of engaging in the sin are two different things, as is the temptation to lie versus the act of lying.

  13. Dan says:

    What does your version of Christianity say about lying? Because that’s how you started your “letter” to us mean spirited, hateful Christians. You said Phil compared homosexuality to bestiality. Did you read his comments, because “reading” would have cleared that up pretty quick. What he said was that when you allow a form of sexual deviance into the culture, others will surely follow…and he listed a few others as well. So your beginning premise is flawed. Secondly, since when did “Christian” have to mean “Wishy, washy, completely accepting of everything, full of love, pansy”? Have you read the Bible? It does talk extensively about love, however, it is very clear on standing up for your faith, beliefs, and your God, and it clearly spells out that homosexuality is a sin. Christians in this country have been too passive for too long – this is why there is no Ten Commandments or prayer in school, no Nativity scenes on government property, etc. And it’s funny how you can tie the rise in teen pregnancy, divorce rates, suicides, drug usage, and all sorts of “non-Christian” behaviors to the near deletion of God from our culture. When Jesus found the money-changers in the Temple, he didn’t use his best girly voice and say, “well, ya’ll just gonna have to up and leave here”, he turned the tables over and physically threw the goods and the people out of His Father’s house. Maybe he was a little too judgmental for you too huh? Maybe you can have a talk with Jesus about how he needs to be more loving and inclusive. You think there’s a problem with Christians…and I agree with you. But the problem is you…not those of us who have had enough of being pushed around, and are finally standing up for ourselves, our God, and our rights. The only reason you, and your ilk don’t like it is because you haven’t seen it before. Well, hang on…this may get rough for you. There’s a movement underway.

    • suzan says:

      Maybe you forgot that you have likely sinned today…before you judge and cast the first stone, take a look at yourself in the mirror. You are not perfect nor is Phil Robertson nor is anyone else Christian or not. It is not our job to judge others or their beliefs, it is to live our life and be the best Christian we can be….being the best Christian involves loving your neighbor as you love yourself, it does follow by saying love your neighbor unless he is something other than you.

      • Marquis says:

        Nowhere in this post did Dan imply that he was perfect. He made an accurate assessment of the modern American society which has become almost irretrievably degenerate due to the removal of God. Suzan I strongly urge you to read your Bible past Mark 12:31, because there’s a lot more to it than passive love and acceptance.

      • Dan says:

        Uh, yep – sin every day, without fail. In fact that’s probably the only thing I do with any sort of regularity. HOWEVER, did Paul or Peter sin in the Bible…were they sinners? And yet there are documents, letters (we call them books of the Bible) calling out people – towns, churches, etc. on their sinful ways. Your logic is flawed…calling out a sin as a sin is not judging. Telling someone they will go to hell is judging. Let’s get that straight. I don’t know that any homosexual will go to hell, but I know that the ones that haven’t accepted the forgiveness that only comes from Jesus are. So let’s not get confused as to what is going on. Christians are so scared of speaking up, that every time they say something…it’s called out as being “judgmental”. Nowhere did Phil “judge” gays. And I personally have not seen any comments from anyone regarding this whole situation that were “judging” anyone. As for love…remember, the Bible also says that we are allowed to hate the sin. We can love the sinner, but hate the sin. And it’s ok to call someone out. If your kid lies…you call him out. Are you being intolerant, or unloving? No, you’re calling out a sin. You gotta wake up!

  14. Marquis says:

    I must admit that I am greatly disappointed by your response to this Ruthie. On the contrary, we are not taught simply to love and let love. Such a view of passive love is hardly reconcilable with the Gospel. Take Jude 1:23 for example, “Save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.” We are instructed to love the sinner, but hate the sin. Also, take the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16-20) into consideration as well, “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’”

    In various verses, homosexuality is condemned as immoral and sinful; barring those who practice it from entering the kingdom of God. Now I understand that we should have a sense of sensitivity and reach out to others with compassion, but that does not mean we can passively accept their sinful desires which bar them from salvation. With grace and compassion we need to show them why their desires are not reconcilable with the Word of God.

    Now, while Phil could have been more tactful, that’s just not who he is. He’s a blunt redneck (I say this with the utmost respect) and he’s proud of it. He was asked what his views on sin were, so he used a contemporary issue to accurately illustrate the influence of sin upon society.

    I am also deeply skeptical of your statement that, “The Bible says that people outside the church will know Jesus because of our love for one another. Nothing else, just love.” While our love is an indicator of our relationship with Christ, I think that you are grievously taking this out of context. Not to mention you provided no Biblical references whatsoever in support of your assessments. Some clarification would be greatly appreciated.

    • Well said. I am disappointed with this post as well.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      1 Corinthians 5: 12 “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?”

      This verse comes directly after Paul is chastising a church for allowing sexual immorality among it’s members where he literally tells the church to hand the individual “over to Satan”.

      The confusion for Christians is that we are to hold Christians to Biblical standards of behavior, but for nonChristians? We are to love them. The Great Commission starts with making disciples (which typically doesn’t happen by trumpeting our truth and making non-Christians feel shame) and then teach them how to obey. It’s not the opposite.

      The point is, no gay person is going to hear what Phil said and say, “I want what he has” or “Gosh, now I know that how I live my life is wrong and I’m going to change.”

      The point of The Great Commission is to take the Gospel to the four corners of the earth and that starts with love.

      • David says:

        “The confusion for Christians is that we are to hold Christians to Biblical standards of behavior, but for nonChristians? We are to love them ”

        Non-Christians are held to the same accountability as Christians are. No matter if they believe in the one True God or not.

        Don’t get to high and mighty that God doesn’t want us to tell His TRUTH as it is, and that we have to be tolerant to everything.

        Mark 39, But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40″For he who is not against us is for us. 41″For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.

        Ecclesiastes 40″For he who is not against us is for us. 41″For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.

        Do you remember what is going to happen in Revelations with the two witnesses at the end of time? I don’t think they will be seen as lovers of unbelievers. JUST SAYIN!

        • David says:

          sorry the Ecclesiastes verse is

          40, A time to tear apart and a time to sew together; A time to be silent and a time to speak. 8A time to love and a time to hate; A time for war and a time for peace.

        • Gary says:

          David,

          Please give an example of Christ judging or condemning a non-Jew…

      • Gary says:

        Ruthie – I do agree with your post above. Here’s how I and many of my friends see this:
        1. Under our constitution, he has the right to say and think anything he wishes
        2. Under Christ, we have no right to judge the world.
        3. In Christ, we have the command to judge other believer’s behaviors (but not their motives; only God knows the heart).
        4. We should expect the non-believing world to behave according to their human natures, which for some, includes homosexuality.
        5. We should loving and humbly judge brothers and sisters who are violating God’s laws and principles. So, for the church body to be “OK” with a Christian who behaves homosexually is the same as the church body accepting a Christian who is an adulterer and open about it.
        6. We have failed the world by judging them according the standards that we are to live by.
        7. We have failed each other (as Christians) by not holding each other accountable to biblical standards.

        We can’t change the Word to make Christians feel good about their choices. We can’t change the world by holding them accountable to God’s laws that they can’t live up to.

        Grace and Peace

      • kati says:

        you guys are never gonna agree because there are too many inconsistencies in the bible to actually have any of it make sense. you can take one point from the bible and refute it with another. best let your moral character be your guide, and if your morals tell you that being a bigot and denying someone basic rights in this country, is all good and wonderful, you have a long way to go to live peaceably in this society.

  15. Eric says:

    I don’t think Phil said anything that could be considered remotely “hateful” about homosexuals…..he just answered a direct question from the interviewer with honesty, and admitted that he didn’t understand the attraction of homosexuality. Was he a bit lacking in tact? Absolutely!! But can you take the text of what was said and derive HATE from it? I don’t think so.
    As a Christian, I’m frustrated at having the gay agenda/viewpoint rammed down my throat at every turn (ever watch TV???), but then being called hateful if I disagree. I rarely agree with my local weatherman, but certainly don’t hate him. LOL
    Here’s the thing, I don’t throw accusations of hate at the actors, producers & writers of the multitude of shows that promote that lifestyle, I simply turn the channel and go on with my life…..I advise doing the same if you don’t agree with Phil or with what the Bible says. But you’re right……there will be consequences.

    • Marquis says:

      Right on Eric! I found Governor Bobby Jindal’s comments on the issue to be quite accurate, “The politically correct crowd is tolerant of all viewpoints, except those they disagree with. I don’t agree with quite a bit of stuff I read in magazine interviews or see on TV. In fact, come to think of it, I find a good bit of it offensive. But I also acknowledge that this is a free country and everyone is entitled to express their views.”

      http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/bobby-jindal-duck-dynasty-101330.html

  16. Jacob says:

    We all need to realize that he wasn’t actually let go because of what he believes. No one is trying to take away his rights, or trying to say that he’s wrong in what he believes. You have to think about who he represents on or off camera and think of it like this. . .He said some things that came across as discriminating even though I honestly believe he didn’t intend it to be taken that way. The problem is that the uproar he caused had to fall back on some one. He, just like all of us who are employed . .have a boss. . Phil had producers. . Producers who within their rights said. . “This guy just caused us a lot more problems than we care to deal with right now” Can you even begin to think of the PR mess this caused. . .how many innocent workers at A&E getting flooded with hate letters, emails, phone calls. . agents dealing with the problem as well. Phil didn’t about think how those comments would effect his producers, the people in the back office of A&E, the camera crews. . .So many people affected by what he said. Phil deserved to get fired and that’s that. If you went to your job and started telling your customers the same thing, you wouldn’t keep your job very long as well. This isn’t about his right to express his beliefs. .it’s not about what Christians or non Christians think . .it’s not about anything other than when you cause headaches for the people who cut your check, the check stops coming in. The best thing Phil could have done, for himself and every single person at A&E was to avoid the question.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Completely agree, Jacob. Thanks for writing in!

    • Jean says:

      The thing is, Jacob, Phil wasn’t at his job when he made those comments. Let”s say you happened to be on the scene of an auto accident and the local news channel interviewed you about what you witnessed. According to your reasoning, if your boss saw the news that night and didn’t like what you said then he has the right to fire you.

      • Maria says:

        But he was being interviewed for his job. It’s not as if it was a random “man on the street” interview, he was being interviewed as the star of a television show, he was representing his job and the television network.

  17. Ryan says:

    Ruthie,

    While this is a very well-written assessment, unfortunately it’s full of holes – both Biblically and logically speaking.

    I’ll attempt to respond point by point.

    Ruthie says:
    “Is this really what it looks like to be a Christian? To slander each other and shake our fingers and cross our arms, basking in our “rightness”?”

    – No, Christians who have the Holy Spirit do not slander, do not shake fingers, and do not boast self-righteousness. But I am failing to see where that is occurring. I can’t speak for all Christians. Surely, some have taken to social media and other avenues to express disgust with the mainstream media’s portrayal of Phil (as well as the liberal lobby who precipitated his eventual suspension from A&E.) If you want to characterize all Christians by the comments of a few, that’s your prerogative. I could characterize the views of all homosexuals and liberals based on the actions of a verbose minority, but that wouldn’t be fair. So I simply don’t do it. MOST Christians I have observed are simply speaking out in support of Phil’s viewpoints. We aren’t shaking fists. We aren’t damning anyone to hell. We’re simply tired of having our voice silenced (ironically enough, this is the same cry coming from the other side of the argument. Ironic, no?)

    Ruthie says:
    “The Bible says that people outside the church will know Jesus because of our love for one another. Nothing else, just love.”
    – Unfortunately, this simply isn’t Scriptural. Certainly, our first charge is to love God and then to love others as Christ loved us. But Proverbs 6:16-19, Proverbs 11:20, Proverbs 15:9 and a multitude of other passages all illustrate God’s disdain for sin. Further, multiple Scriptures show that WE as Christians should hate sin as God hates sin (Psalms 97:10, 1 John 2:15-17, etc.)

    Leviticus says “Love your neighbor as yourself, do not hate him. THIS LOVE DOES NOT MEAN WE SHOULD TOLERATE HIS SINS. Proverbs goes on to say “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord.” Multiple passages that are easily findable say Christians should chasten sin and reprove it.

    This, in essence, says it’s our job to first love, but to also chasten sin and speak out against it. I’m sorry, but your “all we need is love” theology is simply not Biblically sound.

    Ruthie says:
    “When we slander gay people or write a post defending Phil Robertson who is cheering for us? Is it people outside the church? The people that are supposed to want what we have because of our love?”
    – First, you’re painting with a very broad brush again. You’re making the assertion, however much it may be implied, that anyone who defends Phil R. is also slandering gay people. That’s simply disingenuous, and quite frankly, it’s offensive. I possess the ability to defend the Biblical truth behind what Phil said while also loving those who live in sin and desiring they turn away from it. If I “defend” him – I am simply defending his right to speak his mind based on his religion while keeping his job. Phil never said he “hated” gay people as best I can tell. In fact, he said we would all be better off if we just loved each other and loved God. He SPECIFICALLY said it’s not his responsibility to judge anyone. He left that to the Almighty. Again – not seeing how this is “slanderous” in any way. He simply quoted direct Scripture and added some colorful anecdotes to logically offer his personal opinion on the matter.

    Ruthie says”
    “On the contrary, all those people think we’ve lost it, most that Christians are hateful and ignorant.”
    – Again, open the Bible. There are MULTIPLE references to the persecutions who speak truth will face. We aren’t going to be liked. We aren’t going to be accepted by most. The world isn’t rejecting us. They are rejecting Christ. I, as a Christian, am not concerned with the world seeing me as a zealot or a nutjob. I expect it. The world has become an evil place filled with false prophets, false doctrine and false truth. Our job is to be the light, by spreading God’s love and calling out the bastardization of God’s Word for what it is.

    If we are concerned with the world’s perception of us, we are concerned with vanity. And we’ve already lost the battle. The Spirit will speak to the heart of a lost person. All we have to do is provide the blueprint and illustrate that there’s no gray area. You either believe the Bible is the COMPLETE, inerrant Word of God, or you don’t. This isn’t Burger King religion. You can’t “have it your way.” It either is or it isn’t. If you don’t accept the Bible’s standard for sexual morality, you don’t accept the Bible. We aren’t allowed to cherry pick this.

    Ruthie says:
    “We cannot be content to sit back behind our computers and make a point.”
    – Nope. But we also can’t be content to sit idly by while our religion and standard for morality are compromised by a group that is admittedly far more inspired and far more aggressive than we are right now (this is a sad truth.) The “tolerance movement” has become increasingly intolerant of Biblical truth and the rights of Christians to share that viewpoint. This part of our religion (again – the sum is made up of ALL parts – not just the ones we are comfortable with) has nearly become codified and criminalized through rhetoric PRECISELY because enough Christians behind computers aren’t speaking out both online and in their daily lives.

    I appreciate your attempt at some level of reconciliation on this subject. And I don’t disagree with all of it. But Phil Robertson isn’t a “hateful” man and most Christians aren’t hate-filled when it comes to this national discussion, either. To paint all believers with this broad brush is to cannibalize an entire movement that is powered by the love you speak of, but also guided by the Word that you seem to want to hide.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      1 Corinthians 5:12 Paul writes, “12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?” The chapter is about how we are to judge those inside the church but not outside. As Andy Stanley says, the church loses it’s relevance and misses the point when we go around telling non-Christians they should act like Christians. Speaking truth is a must to those who are inside the church; but for those outside? Our charge is to love as Christ has loved us and “become all things to all men”.

      • Ryan says:

        The passage from 1 Cor 5 is sending a message to an early church in danger of being lost to sin. It is not a free pass in terms of rebuking sin and reproofing others – either inside the church or outside. The message in your passage refers to JUDGMENT. Not evaluation or guidance. No Christian should judge sinners, but we can certainly observe their actions against the filter of God’s Word, and we can LOVINGLY provide counsel to them if they seek it. This doesn’t mean we are judging or condemning them. It also doesn’t mean we define habitual sin as an acceptable lifestyle in terms of spiritual health.

        2 Timothy 4:2 says “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.”

        1 Timothy 5:20 says “As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.”

        Romans 16:17 says “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them”

        I think there is balance between what you and I are saying, and I don’t think we’re far off in our interpretation of the Word. I agree with you that we need to do everything to further the kingdom of God with Love. If we base anything we do in anything other than love, we’re in error. That much we can agree upon. Basically, if we love the Lord, love our neighbors, share the Gospel and try to make disciples, we’ll be in God’s will. The tricky part is disciple-making, because we have to walk the delicate line between admitting our own daily sin while also acknowledging and reproofing the sin in others who are Lost.

        Just my thoughts, and I appreciate the discussion. I think what I take most issue with is the depiction of Christians (even by some other Christians!) as hate-filled slanderers. Sharing Biblical truth isn’t driven by hate – it’s the most loving thing we can do. The fact is, no sin is worse than any other, and homosexuality/abortion have become lynchpins for a national dialogue when really, the evangelism of the Gospel should be our primary effort. The issue, though, is when we pretend sin isn’t actually sin.

      • SL says:

        Ruthie – So you’re saying we should speak half-truths to those outside the church? A lantern with a basket over it does no good in the dark.

  18. Claudia says:

    I agree with Dan. I haven’t read Phil’s interview but it seems that every time someone speaks their opinion against homosexuality, we are being bigots or judgmental or un-loving. For us that believe that homosexuality is a sin, we see it as sinful as being unfaithful to a spouse, or being racist, or murdering or stealing, etc. We do not hate the sinners but hate the sin. You are right, we should go about disagreements in a loving and non-violent manner, but nonetheless we have a right to an opinion and belief as well. I am not defending Phil personally, but defending people that disagree with what the social media portrays as right. Thanks for allowing us to state our opinions.

  19. Sarah says:

    I think what most people are so upset about is that Phil is being slammed for stating his beliefs when Miley Cyrus can act awful on stage and America is ok with that. It’s disgusting what our culture has come to. God is being taken out of everything and what happens? We have a rise in in every possible moral decay you can think of. Just look at Sandy Hook. I agree that Christians should love more and serve but he has a right to freely speak in this country and the media is crucifying him. That is not right! I love your blog Ruthie but it just induriates me that we can accept everything else in our country but not a Christian truth.

    • Ruthie Dean says:

      Hi Sarah, I wasn’t debating whether or not homosexuality is sin. Whatever we believe about homosexuality (right or wrong) doesn’t mean we are to go around trumpeting “truth” in people’s faces–in essence telling all the non-Christians to act like Christians. (1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?)

      • Bill says:

        Ruthie, judging ones sins is different from pontificating on the difference between right or wrong. Unless you have a guilty conscious what Phil Robertson said should not offend you. If it does, get your heart right with God. No one man can judge the collective whole of the United States, and nowhere in the article did Phil ever single someone out. Respect his right to his opinion and their may be more people who will respect yours.

  20. John Minton says:

    You are right we are suppose to show love to all people no matter what, and we don’t. What I see is the world what’s us to love and not tell them or preach to them about how they are living. Jesus showed the most love to sinners and after he showed his love, he then told them they couldn’t sin anymore. Today’s church, world, media wants Christian to love and show tolerance to how I live. Jesus does love the sinner and hates the sin and that is how we are suppose to live. I also believe they want us to accept all religion no matter what they stand for. There are some religions in our country that advocate that some sin you are to be stoned if caught in it. I don’t here any of the PC police bashing there religion. I also think that when a respectable Christian person is doing well in there profession (reality star, football, preacher) these interviews are set up to make sure these controversy issue makes it in the interview. When a Miley star does the immoral junk on stage she is appalled how great of artist she is. I just believe it’s a double standard when a Christian person is slammed for what the believe in. Then all other people can degrade people in songs, say words we can’t say in public and they are called great artist .

  21. Kirsten says:

    Ruthie, your blog often has some good insights. However, here I think you have stopped at “acceptance” instead of cultivating an understanding of “love.” Love involves truth, and many times the truth is uncomfortable. It is not our task to make the gospel more palatable for the masses–God has already communicated what He wants through his word, and we don’t need to reinvent truth in the interest of people-pleasing. As I read your entry, I sense a tone that seems common among those from our generation–and that tone is one of prioritizing acceptance, inclusion, and comfort over timeless truth. While I also know the dangers of legalism and “Bible beating,” I see the value in clear and unambiguous communication of truth. I’m sure you’ve read the original GQ article, but my impression was that the journalist pulled Phil’s quotes out of context and twisted them to cast Phil in an unflattering light. While I agree that the authentic Christian response is one of REAL love for those critiquing Phil’s comments (not mere acceptance), I do not agree that Christians should respond with a cushy, comfortable response to comments made. Sometimes truth is offensive. Isn’t that what the gospel is about in the first place? The gospel is offensive. It offends our flesh and requires us to yield the sin we think we love to Him–and all of those sins are equal–so, yes, homosexuality and bestiality are on the same level…along with things that seem so benign…lying, stealing, idolizing popular opinion, anger…they are all the same. That said, I am a Christian who will continue to defend Phil Robertson. Not many of us are willing to verbalize truth like Phil has–because biblical truth often isn’t culturally palatable.

    • chip says:

      “Not many of us are willing to verbalize truth like Phil has–because biblical truth often isn’t culturally palatable. ”

      You mean like this passage where the murder of nonbelievers (infidels) is encouraged?

      They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

      or this passage, that celebrates the killing of children?
      “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

      I guess Biblical truth can be an acquired taste.

      • Kirsten says:

        Hi Chip,

        I’m not sure if I understand your comment in the context of this argument, but I will say that you can’t argue effectively or logically by pulling pieces of scripture out of the context of the passage, the entire Bible, time, and the culture. Additionally, the coming of Christ did not nullify the commandments outlined in the Old Testament; rather, the coming of Christ fulfilled these commandments. Therefore, many portions of the Old Testament are relevant to us today, although we are not bound to the law in the way that we were prior to Christ’s death and resurrection. These things are critical to remember when reading and analyzing passages from the Old Testament.

        In regards to 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 and the second verse (which has no reference, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from… I did a Google search and came up with 0 results…if you can get the actual reference listed, I can respond more thoroughly), these verses must be interpreted in context. I’ve done some research on the 2 Chronicles passage, and this verse, in the context of the book of 2 Chronicles and the entire Bible, is intended to communicate clearly God’s attitude towards sin and His desire for the whole heart (loyalty) of His people, the Israelites–they were commanded to place no other god before God (to have no idols), and they had chosen to disobey. King Asa, unlike many of the kings who preceded and followed him, was obedient to the Lord. He recognized the idolatry in the people’s lives, and he demonstrated his complete devotion to the Lord through ordering the destruction of all of those people who chose to continue to disobey God’s commands. King Asa chooses to reaffirm the covenant between the Israelites and the Lord, turning the nation back to God. The deaths you mention in the verses above were the consequence of some of the people’s decision not to join King Asa in reaffirming the covenant with– or complete loyalty to–the Lord. Though the verse taken by itself sounds harsh, what I think you neglect to see is that the people of Israel had a CHOICE in this situation. They knowingly chose to reject the Lord and continue to worship their idols–their sin–although the Lord always wants and knows the best for His people.

        In the greater context of the Old Testament, this story is one of many demonstrating the cyclical relationship between God and His chosen people, the Israelites. The Israelites would follow God wholeheartedly for a time, then they would sin and turn away from Him, and, finally, once they confessed and turned back, the Lord would take them back.

        And, in an even larger context of the entire Bible, the relationship with God and the Israelites is comparable to God’s relationship with us, although we are no longer bound by the law and instead we are under the covenant of grace. In our journey as followers of Christ, we often go through seasons of loyalty to God and seasons of turning away from him– to our idols–to our sins. We place the desires of our flesh–whether that’s an inappropriate sexual relation, lying, anger, idolizing people’s opinions, bitterness, etc.–over our desire for God. We begin to worship our flesh instead of worshipping the One we were designed to worship…filling gaps with something second rate. The story about King Asa demonstrates God’s hatred of sin–He is jealous for our attention, and living life as He designed life is BEST. He so hates the sin, He wants it completely removed from the people’s midst…and from our lives. When we cling to these idols–what we think we love–we are not able to live life to the full or abundantly (John 10:10). We are experiencing a shallow and cheap reproduction of life as it was intended–something synthetic. It’s like a relationship between a parent and a child–sometimes the child desperately wants to do something that’s actually harmful. The child is frustrated when the parent corrects him or her, simply because he or she cannot see beyond his or her harmful desire. However, the parent is actually protecting the child. Kind of like the touching-the-fire analogy. God wanted to protect His people, so He commanded a complete purge of idolatry. The Israelites had a choice, as we do, in their response.

        So, yes, truth isn’t palatable. It tastes bad at first. But if you were harming yourself and didn’t realize it fully, would you want your friend to let you continue to harm yourself or to try and tell you the truth and intervene? I don’t know about you, but I hope my friend would stop me. And that’s real love. Sometimes real love means hearing the things we don’t want to hear but that will result in our long-term benefit.

        Our flesh will always drive us towards the choice that is second (or third or fourth or fiftieth) best. God outlines truth in His Word. It’s an instruction manual for life…and things never function best when they aren’t used the way they were designed. Sometimes that means accepting the uncomfortable, counter-flesh, counter-cultural, initially unpalatable reality.

        • SL says:

          Kirsten – Your reply is full of Godly wisdom. Thank you for taking the time to share. You should take over this blog.

          • chip says:

            “you should take over this blog”

            or maybe she could just start her own. love how you’re so quick to silence anyone – even a fellow Christian – who interprets the Bible differently than you.

            and Kirsetn – I appreciate the time you took to reply, but it seems to me that everything in the Bible – especially “truths” that are unpalatable to you – has to be taken in context.

            Everything except the antigay verses. They are always to be interpreted EXACTLY as originally written in King James English, and without ANY consideration whatsoever of context.

            Context only applies to scripture that is difficult for the apologists to explain away. I know that’s the response I get if I mention the direct quote from Christ (who’s that??) about giving away all of one’s possessions in order to be perfect. It’s always “OH THAT!?! No, no, no, Christ didn’t mean for that to be taken literally (though they can never point to me where Christ says “just kidding about that part where I said give away all your possessions”

            So that was my takeaway. Passages difficult for str8 Christians – must be taken in context of time and culture. Passages difficult for homosexuals must be taken literally and without an consideration of time or culture.

            Sounds fair to me.

          • Kirsten says:

            Hi Chip,

            Thanks- I enjoyed reading up on 2 Chronicles. And SL, thanks. I think Ruthie is trying to emphasize the importance of recognizing people as people and caring for them as we should care for God’s creation–and I respect many other things she has pointed out in her other posts; I just disagree with her definition of “love” in this post and how her post peers towards “tolerance,” which I don’t think Christians are called to in the way she implies. Love is so, so much deeper than acceptance and “tolerance,” and that’s what makes Christ’s love incredible and unlike anything else available in this world.

            Chip, a few things come to mind as I read your reaction. I notice that in my life, when I become entangled in a particular sin or when someone I really care about is entangled in a particular sin, my fleshly reaction (like all of us) is to get defensive and attempt to justify what I’m doing. My flesh is so attached to the sin, that I want to seek out every reason possible not to have to face what the Bible actually says (truth) and move towards Christ. In these instances, I have become so infatuated with my sin that I am blinded to the life Christ has to offer. It’s when I repent and completely sacrifice these idols (like King Asa purges the idols in 2 Chronicles) that I once again experience the wholeness and fullness and real LIFE that a relationship with Christ has to offer. I look back and wonder why I was so foolish to consider the sin I thought I loved to be better than confessing and removing barriers in my relationship with God created through sinful behavior–I wonder why I would want to experience something that is only half as good as what Christ offers. And I think that’s how all of us innately react to our “favorite” sins. For me, homosexuality is not a temptation I face, but I do struggle with many, many other things–unfortunately, I think sins like homosexuality get the brunt of the attention because they are more overt and also more layered and complex in some ways. C.S. Lewis beautifully describes the power of sin in his book, The Great Divorce. I encourage you to read it if you get a chance. Lewis develops an analogy that illustrates how deeply attached and blinded we become to specific sins in our lives, and how this attachment keeps us from living life to the full…and how Christ is the remedy to that limitation (again, John 10:10).

            I am digressing from your post, but my point is that when I read your reactions I sense a lot of defensiveness and anger–maybe I’m wrong. Scripture is very explicit about particular sins in all places and times, and homosexuality happens to be one of them. As is lying, stealing, murder, adultery, and many others. Additionally, you mention that these strong, absolute pieces of scripture don’t seems to apply to straight people as much; however, adultery certainly applies to straight people. Sexual morality applies to straight people. Sex, as defined in scripture, is only permissible within the bonds of marriage, which is defined as being between one man and one woman. There’s a lot of room in there for straight people to dislike those absolute commandments. God’s attitude towards any kind of sex outside of marriage doesn’t really leave any room for interpretation in context. It’s simply wrong in all contexts. And here again, as an aside, it’s also critical to remember that scripture isn’t outlining this list of rules for the sake of outlining a list of rules. Scripture is explaining, essentially, how life is best lived. God’s telling us these things for our best interest and to bring himself glory (as the Westminster catechism states, “Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God and fully to enjoy Him forever.”). God’s not telling us these things in His word to hurt us but to help us. It’s like eating vegetables or working out…it doesn’t taste great or feel good at first, but being disciplined in eating well and exercising is better for our bodies…and good health allows us to more fully enjoy life. As Paul says, we have to discipline ourselves to become more like Christ–for his glory and our wellbeing (1 Corinthians 9). That means disciplining ourselves to move further and further away from the sins we struggle with.

            It’s interesting that you brought up that commandment about possessions, and I’m so sorry to hear about your experience with the response to quoting the Bible on possessions. I will say that I would like to see the reference you’re referring to, because, if I remember correctly, that piece of scripture comes from Jesus’s interaction with the rich young ruler in Matthew 19. I, too, have struggled with reading this passage and seeing the way Christians in Bible belt America handle possessions. However, it’s also important to understand that Christ cares most not about external things (i.e. physical wealth or physical poverty), but the condition of the heart. In the case of the rich young ruler, Christ knew the man’s heart and that sacrificing these positions would be what was required for the rich young ruler to understand and demonstrate complete loyalty to Christ in His heart. This story is beautiful, because God knows each of us uniquely. He understands our motives and the attitude of our heart towards Him. A wealthy person can give away all of their possessions without having the right heart posture towards God or the right motives for his or her actions. It’s interesting to also consider the story of the widow’s mite–she gave a minuscule amount of money, but the money she gave was all she had and she gave with all her heart. THIS is what Christ wants. Not the physical objects. But our whole heart and undivided attention (same principle demonstrated in the King Asa story). Recently, I listened to a sermon series from David Platt on wealthy and poverty. I’ll include the link at the end of this post–he thoroughly explored the issue from a biblical perspective (it’s a series of four sermons on looking at prosperity in the Bible). Though the physical possessions are not the primary issue, I do wish the American Christian culture had a fuller understanding of their wealth relative to the rest of the world, their responsibility to care for the poor, and the responsibility attached to God’s blessing of wealth.

            I hope this was helpful and that I covered everything you pointed out.

            http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=1081

  22. John says:

    Show love speak truth.

  23. Victoria says:

    I do believe that your viewpoint has some merit in that you are able to justify it using the Scripture about judging those in the church. However, Jesus spoke truth TO ALL PEOPLE, not just those He found in the “church setting”. He spoke truth to the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, telling her to go and sin no more. Some people like to focus on the “go” part of it, but they forget that He also said “sin no more”. I do believe that we are to love all people and we are to remember that love covers a multitude of sins, but we are not to turn Christianity into a love fest while forgetting that Jesus said Himself that His Father is looking for worshippers who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Both of those things are equally important- the Holy Spirit and the TRUTH of God’s Word.

  24. Tj says:

    Dear Ruthie, you obviously did not read his interview, you are going on the media’s hyping of what they want you to think he said. You are spreading lies just like the rest of the media is doing. Phil is a devout Christian and believes what the Bible stories teach. Please read the interview word for word and then recant your misguided words.

  25. Tj says:

    By extrapolating quotes and just plain old lying, the elite media are using a GQ interview with “Duck Dynasty” patriarch Phil Robertson as an excuse to go on an anti-Christian rampage that they hope will further their longstanding goal of toxifying Biblical beliefs as bigoted and anti-gay. If you read the full GQ interview, though, it is glaringly obvious that Robertson is anti-sin, not anti-gay, and that he believes we should all love one another.
    To begin with, the Duck Commander did not single out homosexual behavior; he listed over a half-dozen sins, including adultery, greed, bestiality, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. But the most important thing Robertson said I have yet to see anyone in the elite media report:
    You put in your article that the Robertson family really believes strongly that if the human race loved each other and they loved God, we would just be better off. We ought to just be repentant, turn to God, and let’s get on with it, and everything will turn around.
    Here’s the most important thing: in the article, Robertson said this just before he talked at length about sin.
    Obviously, context is everything when it comes to understanding truth, but context is also kryptonite to an anti-Christian media and left only interested in furthering their own bigoted agenda.
    If you look at the full context of what Robertson said, including the quote about loving one another that the media is going out of its way to not report, how can the media claim that Robertson said homosexuals are going to Hell? Or that he singled out homosexuals? Or that he compared homosexuality to bestiality.
    If Robertson compared homosexuality to bestiality, he also compared adultery, drunkenness and greed to bestiality — and no one is arguing that.
    You can only claim what the left and the media are claiming about Robertson if you are lying, and it is just a fact that through the act of omission (the quote above) and commission, the media are lying.
    Phil Robertson is anti-sin, believes we should all love one another, and believes we can all be saved through the grace of Jesus Christ.
    Only the media and the left could be offended by that.

  26. Donna Benjamin says:

    As much as I believe in freedom of speech, what BLOWS my mind is the lack of support for our military who have given WAY more than anyone else in America to fight for those freedoms. It deeply saddens me that this DD guy who has already made more money than he needs is getting more attention than military retirees, like my husband whose government he and others have fought for and defended has gone back on YET another SIGNED contract and have agreed on BOTH sides of the aisle to CUT our military retirees pay!! The ONLY budget cut in this new deal!!!

  27. Kristinnashville says:

    The Bible is clear about judging one another and those who feel the need to rub another’s “sin” in their face, make mocking, mean sprited statement like “I prefer vagina over anus” and “fight” for what they believe instead of live it are sinners themselves. God IS LOVE. And Christians are supped to mirror LOVE. Judging others pointing out sin and telling people they are wrong simply isn’t love. I agree with this article 100%.

    • SL says:

      You’re right, it is clear. See Galatians 6:1. People cannot be restored to Christ if they are not made aware of their sins. And we are called to do just that, not sit back and watch everyone condemn themselves.

  28. Bill says:

    Was it not Jesus who flipped the tables in a place of worship because he saw sin and greed? Phil speaking his mind and comparing homosexuality to bestiality (or child molestation for that matter) is not only his OPINION but sin is equal regardless of the measurement that man uses to differentiate. You chastising Christians for defending a man who spoke from a place of conviction is part of the problem with society today. Respect their rights to support someone who believes as they do. If you don’t like it, then support your opinions with facts and let those who are undecided, decide which way they will believe. Until you can do this, quit pontificating on the righteousness of your position…

  29. Harrison says:

    From the gist of this article and some responses and some of your more-recent articles, I would just like to point out that grace, just like legalism, can be a pit for christians, as sometimes we end up worshiping grace (/what God gives us) and not God himself. Borrowing from a sermon at Midtown in Nashville: treating God like a vending machine–going and getting grace from him only when we need it to avoid feeling shame about our sin, and not truly worshipping him as God. Further, I believe that sometimes “grace” itself can be misconstrued. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in the first chapter of “The Cost of Discipleship” explains grace as two-fold in nature: free grace and costly grace. He points out that there is a strong tendency to forget just how costly it was to God to give us grace (his son) and that sometimes we lose sight of the gospel and exchange costly grace for “cheap grace.” Yes, grace is free and yes God is yearning to give us grace, but please don’t lose sight of how much it cost God to give us that grace, as costly grace can only lead to sanctification. See Titus 2:11-15, please. He notes that those who use grace as a means to go ahead and sin anyways don’t understand how costly grace is, and MAYBE not understand the gospel. Read that first chapter for a much better explanation.

    Also, I think it is crucial to define what exactly biblical love is–as defined by scripture and not some trendy article–to avoid getting lost in the midst of culture’s tolerance-above-all-else view of love. I’m certainly far from being an expert but I do know that jesus loved others perfectly, and yet he told the prostitute at the well to “go and sin no more.” And I do know that Jesus rebuked others at times. Heck, he even called Peter satan in Matthew 16. I’m not saying that all love is is tough love, but I am saying that loving others cannot be never saying anything about their sin. The church I go to in Knoxville, Cedar Springs Presbyterian (EPC), is absolutely incredible. The pastor, John Woods, is IMO one of the top few in the country. (Tullian Tchajflkadskldfjaalkf–probably the most love and free grace pastor I can think of–quotes him in the first chapter of his book, “Jesus + Nothing = Everything” and he is close and long-time friends with the likes of Keller and Piper, all for a little credence.) Anyways, in a sermon he gave going on close to three years ago now, he said that he was at a weekend retreat in the mountains with “you all know them by name” other pastors throughout the country and they started discussing grace. John Woods said, “Enough with all this grace talk! Sometimes I love someone too much to lead them to think they are under God’s grace when they are not.”

    And I think he nails the danger with some christian’s view of grace and love on the head there. For those of us who are truly children of God, yes, we are under His grace. But for those who aren’t, wrath. See Romans 3-6, 8/ the entire Bible. Sometimes, truly loving someone–not in the worldly sense, but in the biblical sense–may mean letting the law do it’s work, so that the cross can do its. But then the dangers you allude to on the other end of the spectrum (bible beating, condemning, not loving others where they are, even in their sin) pops up.

    I’m still sorting through all this for myself, as are all of us really, but I just wanted to share my two cents.

  30. Racheal says:

    Ruthie,

    I appreciate your blog and your efforts to speak peace and comfort into the lives of single women. That being said, you are off-base in this post.

    Our only authority as Christians is derived from the Word of God, and if we refuse to see it and speak it truthfully, we lose all credibility. On the issue of homosexuality, there is no doubt how God classifies it- as sin. It is a sexual sin, as is adultery and any sexual act outside marriage. This may be hard to accept for those who aren t too bothered about sleeping w/their bf or gf, but this is a wake-up call: God hates all sexual sin!

    As believers, we are called to live a pure life, to treat our bodies as God s tabernacle and to flee from sin. How are we to live a pure life free of sexual sin if we refuse to recognize and identify sin?

    Ruthie, it is not your niceness or friendliness that delivers a soul from destruction and death- only the saving truth found in God s Word can do that. We are called to speak the truth of God s Word in love- but we must speak it.

  31. karen says:

    You are truly ignorant of the word of GOD. He quoted the BIBLE, look it up.If you cant stand to hear then bequite and quit spitting yoiur ignorance all over everybody else. YES I agree with Phil because he agrees with the word of GOD. Its people like you that don’t understand it, or Christians that takes this all out of context, youi don’t understand it so you attack it.. THE TRUTH HURTS. The word of GOD is designed to do just that, cut to the quick and make us realize our mistakes. GOD did not keep anything from us because it wouild offend some of us. THE ISSUE IS FREEDOM OF SPEACH AND RELIGION. that is what Phil is fighting for. NOT for himself but standing up for the word of GOD that he read, or quoted. It is not a time for Christians to be quiet, they have taken prayer from schools, and tried to take it out of the pledge and on the currency, WE cant let them succeed in NOT letting us quote the BIBLE If it offends you then you are the one that needed to hear it and straighten up your life

  32. Jay says:

    Do as thou wilt. This commandment is creeping into Christianity today. This is part of the satanist bible written by crowley. When we get to a point were we no longer can define sin, then we have crossed over the line. The Bible is very clear about certain sins and there is no ambiguity. It also states we will know them by the fruits they bare. We are also admonished to call out someone in sin, not as a final judgment, but for restoration. It seems with all the coddling we have demonstrated “out of love” has not had the desired affected of turning us away from sin, but making the sin palatable.

    • This world is an amazing site to see, when one has actually seen the heart of a pagan, following their own laws, that are more holy than the liberal ways of the “modern Christian”. For example, The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, Law No. 9, “Do not harm little children”. – Tell that to some “holy” priests who seem to feel it is proper, as a “Christian” Priest,
      to have sex with children.

  33. June says:

    Ruthie, thanks so much for expressing so well what I have been feeling all day. I also agree with your comments, Lennette.

  34. I just may be on a path to becoming a pagan due to the hypocrisy of Christians.

    [ In Matthew 10:1-15, cf. Luke 10:1-12, Jesus declares certain cities more damnable than Sodom and Gomorrah, due to their response to Jesus' disciples, in the light of greater grace (RSV): "And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town." In Matthew 11:20-24 Jesus prophesies the fate of some cities where he did some of his works (RSV): "And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." In Luke 17:28-30 Jesus compares his second-coming to the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (RSV):
    "Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed." In Romans 9:29 Paul quotes Isaiah 1:9-10 (RSV): "And as Isaiah predicted, 'If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah.'"
    In 2Peter 2:4-10 Peter uses the time of Sodom and Lot in his description of the time of the second coming of Jesus.
    Jude 1:7 records that both Sodom and Gomorrah were "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Revelation 11:7-8 makes an allegorical use of Sodom when it describes the places where two prophets will descend during the Apocalypse. ]

    You Sola Scriptura’s make me sick

    I’m sick of you religious

    Clearly your own sacred texts are clear about homosexuality according to your god, yet you deny the truth.

  35. John says:

    In Jesus day, the religious “right” missed Him completely because they were looking for a political and military leader to physically conquer opposing politics and religious differences of opinion and belief. It would appear history would want to repeat itself!

    According to the Book, the world is going to do what the world is going to do even to the point of following an antichrist one day.

    It also says those who triumph or overcome do so by TWO things. It only named TWO!
    By the blood of the Lamb (grace) and the word of their testimony (what grace has done for YOU)!

    We will NOT survive by our politics, debates, opinions, etc.

    The way to the putting the wheels to triumph in motion are through Revelation 12:11. The blood of the Lamb and our testimony!

    God has done more FOR me than any person or entity has ever done TO me! The former part of that sentence shall always be my focus rather than the latter! Or at least this shall be my goal …

  36. Jeremy says:

    Homosexual people are just that, people. To say that beastiality is the in any way related is dehumanizing a person for being gay. That is repulsve and the message that many Christians are communicating on the web these days.

    • Josh says:

      That’s where a lot of people are misconstruing this. Not that I agree with what was said by Phil, but I do have the respect enough to not twist a quote into something for me to bicker about. He was not calling homosexuals animal rapist, or anything of the sort. He was asked to state what he saw as sin, he then went on to list several different types of things he saw as “sexual sins”. It wasn’t a matter if him trying to bash anyone. He just happen to list homosexuality first, and then went on from there. It wasn’t a case of saying, “well this is gonna turn into this”, it was saying “well there’s this, this, and this”. I enjoy the above arrival, but it is still very much one-sided.

  37. Jason says:

    There is a story in the Gospels, where Jesus meets a woman at the well. While there she gets some water for Jesus, and He turns and asks her where her husband was. He knew full well where her husband was, as the discourse that would play out would demonstrate. The woman at the well was there at that time because no one else would be because everyone knew her and she was a bit of an outcast. And yet Jesus, a man everyone says only confronted the religious, actually confronted this woman on her sin. He didn’t do it judgmentally, but he did do it. In the story you can see the woman’s own shame in her life’s choices.

    Why did Jesus call out the woman? Because God didn’t define sin arbitrarily. Sin hurts us in this life. For example pornography, addition destroys men, by objectifying their view of women, and hurting martial relationships. The gospel is more than forgiveness, it’s healing, when we forget that we miss the most powerful aspect.

  38. Stephanie says:

    This is a great post. I have been saying this on facebook to so many people. I told one of my friends that the fact that she is supporting him “in full” (as she says) without denouncing any part of his statement (i.e., black Americans were happy, joyous and productive pre Jim Crow and now are entitlement and welfare oriented–not to mention less loving of Jesus…). This friend was perfectly fine supporting him in the name of Christianity.
    We have gotten to the point where we are as zealous as the Islamists that many point at. We’re living with a Westboro Baptist mentality without recognizing it. I agree that we are to be accountable as Christians but we are to demonstrate love to non-Christians because Christ knew that you don’t win people with hellfire and brimstone, you win them with love, compassion. Would you be compelled to listen to an atheist that started the conversation with vitriol or would you be more likely to have a calm conversation with someone who is emphasizing their point without denigrating you?
    Ironically what many Christians are doing through their judgment is proving that they don’t trust God to do his work when it’s all said and done so they feel the need to do it for him. Who wants to worship a God that is incapable as the one many of you believe him to be?

  39. ~ Men with Men, Women with Women, Men with Animals, Women with Animals – As a pagan, an atheist of the highest order, Logic would teach me simply that the above is incapable of procreation. Therefore, humanity would eventually die out, would become weak. Two males can not produce fruit, another living being of their nature. Neither can two females. Pure logic confirms that it takes a male and a female to procreate. Did not the Christian god, the god those of the Christian faith worship, say, “Be fruitful and multiply.” How can this be unless male and female remain as one. ~

    • Billie says:

      Exactly as I have been saying. People are horrified that Phil supposedly compared being gay, to bestiality. But if you go back 50 some years ago, a man being with a man, or woman being with a woman, was just as horrible in our community as man being with animal. So just because our “government” has decided is ok for gay marriages, or some in our communities believe its ok, so why exactly do those that don’t think it’s ok get ridiculed? How is the way Phil is being treated any different that what he is being accused of? If you take the time to read the whole article, you would see that this piece and that piece have been put together to read something entirely different! WHAT??? I can’t believe the media would do something like that!
      I would also like to point out something else that people are failing to see. Throughout all the newscasts, fb posts, newspaper articles, the Robertson family has been referred to as “Rednecks” “hillbillys” and my favorite “those people”. How the hell is this any different than what he’s accused of? These are groups of people, just as blacks, just as gays etc. Why is it in our society we pick and choose what is wrong? How can you say in the same mouth that it’s not ok to speak your opinion on blacks or gays and continue to call someone a redneck or those people? If people continue to throw that we are created equal statement out there, then by golly perhaps you should remember that when you decide to call back woods people names.
      Our country will never see eye to eye regardless of religion. Christians will never see eye to eye, because everything is left to interpretation.

  40. Michelle Chapman says:

    Ruthie,
    While you and so many others (on both sides of the issue) have so publicly pulled verses out of here and there to justify this, do you think maybe you have become just like everyone else? I would make this private if I could so I would not be doing the same but there is not a way to do this.

    Speak and act as one who will be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgement without mercy will be shown to anyone who is not merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgement James 2

    Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Galatians 6:1

    PUBLICLY judging anyone is not Biblical… so maybe Phil didn’t say everything right, but we have NO right to publicly say anything.. anymore than you feel that he did.. maybe we all need to learn to live like we are so easily able to point out that others should live. and just to be clear, Phil didn’t single out one single person but rather alluded to a nature while you have chosen to attack a person.. just a thought

  41. Brynn says:

    Based on most of the comments supporting Phil here, I would rather be in hell than with most of the Christians here.

    • Steven says:

      I understand your differing opinion that you apparently hold and I do not know your religious beliefs so I will not assume anything. However, please consider what the word “Christian” means. It means “Christ-like” So in essence you are saying that you would rather be damned than to abide with those who are Christ-like. That’s a rather offensive statement to throw at our Creator. If you do not hold to a Christian lifestyle, this comment is null and void as it is natural that since you do not believe in God you could care less if you offend a mythical being. However, if you do profess practicing a belief in Jesus Christ, please consider what words you are uttering. We all say things when we are upset or angry, but let’s consider the higher implications of what we are in fact saying. Christian is not a loose term, despite people’s propensity to use it as such.

    • chip says:

      Me too! I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. The sinners are MUCH more fun!

  42. John Davidson says:

    So here is my issue with this. Why is it in this country that it is ok to support freedom of speech when there are picket for gay rights or same sex marriages that everything is ok, but one person voicing his opinion causes such an up roar. What happened to freedom of speak just because some people are offended. Why have we raised a nation of soft, whinney, thin skinned people who cry out every time someone says something they don’t agree with.

  43. Andy G. says:

    Christ was the ultimate example of love. He sat down with those that were deemed social misfits, but He never wavered on the issues. He didn’t tell the prostitute that it was okay, He said (in a loving manner) “Go and sin no more.” The Bible doesn’t mess around with sin. It’s not something we can say is “okay”, pat them on the back and ignore. Sin is sin. The Bible is very clear on these issues. Yes, be loving, but also be firm. Homosexuality is mentioned repeatedly in the Bible as a sin. We cannot get around that issue. It’s God’s rules, not ours. We can’t change them.

  44. Dustin says:

    I feel as if you disregarded the second part of the interview where he spoke nothing but love. Is it just easier to point a finger at the wrong he said rather than to appreciate the love he shared?

  45. SL says:

    Ruthie…exactly what point do you think the Apostle Paul was making when he wrote 1 Corinthians 6:9-10? Do you think he said that because gay marriage wasn’t legal back then, or because the Holy Spirit was guiding him in how to minister to people in a way that would be timeless? Do you think it makes a difference when you don’t speak in biblical truth, or when you only preach the parts of the bible that your “feelings” agree with? I would contend that it does make a difference; the difference between a follower of Jesus and a false teacher. Not to mention the difference between eternal life in His kingdom or not. These guidelines were written so that we might recognize the difference between good and evil, and hopefully choose the former over the latter. Yes, believe in Jesus and be saved, but like He said, “Go and sin no more.” Now I ask, just as Phil was asked, what do you consider to be sin? Are we to believe the world’s interpretation of sin over that of the bible? Are we supposed to dumb it down and/or sugarcoat the truth, or are we to stand firm in the biblical truths presented to us via the Holy Spirit? And for those of you who think Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality, I’d like to point out that Jesus is God. The Father and the Son are One, are they not? Therefore he said plenty about it in the Old Testament. Especially when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. As for the “translation was wrong” argument, was it also wrong for “men lay with men?” I doubt it. Be not deceived.

  46. Mama says:

    All I hear this time of year is “Put Christ back in Christmas” – you have it all wrong. I think it’s more that it’s time to put Christ back in Christians. Christ never left Christmas, no one takes him ftom Christmas unless the believer stops believing. But I see precious little of Christ in Christians anymore. Just ego and pride. None of the love and humility of those who claim to be his followers. And all the message all of this has left with me is to be thankful I am not one – because all that is shown is nothing I ever want to be.

  47. Mendy says:

    For you to say that Christians are horrible people…..is absolutely ridiculous!! I’m sorry that you only know fake Christians. However saying we are full of hate and judgment we are not!!!! Please before you go against any religion be smart enough to educate yourself and fully experience it. Then and only then can you make a statement against it. As far as Phil Robinson is concerned, he was asked a direct question about his opinion and he gave it. Just like how you are stating your opinion now, should you be fired and your integrity destroyed for doing the same thing?
    In the Bible and in the Qu’ran, Sadam and Gamora did happen because of homosexually. It clearly states that in both.
    Personally I have several homosexual friends. Why? Because I see them the same as anyone else. It is not my place to condemn nor judge anyone. I fully comprehend that I am only responsible for my decisions……and the only one that will face God for them…..it is up to him not me……………….funny that is also the same thing Phil said…….but we only speak about what he quoted from the Bible……but not the part where he said he would never treat anyone differently.

    • Pamela says:

      Actually, it was not because of homosexuality that Sodom & Gomorrah were judged. If you read Ezekiel 16, it is stated that one of the main reasons Sodom & Gomorrah were “were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy”.

      • SL says:

        Really?!!

        They called out to Lot and said, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have sex with them! ” (Genesis 19:5 HCSB)

        • Pamela says:

          That wasn’t “homosexuality.” That was rape – power and control (with a little murder thrown in for good measure undoubtedly). You cannot correlate the two together – they are not the same thing. Go read Ezekiel.

          • SL says:

            Men having sex with men, either forcible or consensual, IS homosexuality. Go read a dictionary.

          • SL says:

            And speaking of correlating two things together…

            If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands. If a man has sexual intercourse with an animal, he must be put to death; you are also to kill the animal. (Leviticus 20:13, 15 HCSB)

            Seems like just recently some guy named Phil said something similar. Try reading the rest of the bible sometime.

  48. Eric says:

    “Is this really what it looks like to be a Christian? To slander each other and shake our fingers and cross our arms, basking in our “rightness”?
    Is defending Phil Robertson for his offensive comments and slamming people with Bible verses on social media what it looks like to follow Jesus?”

    Phil Robertson isn’t “basking in his “rightness”. He claims that he is a sinner and that he has messed up to. He claims that his family came from a long list of mess ups. He just points out that The Bible says homosexuality is wrong.

    One thing that many people care confusing is that he compares Homosexuality to Bestiality. You have to look at what he says with some knowledge of The Bible. In The Bible, sin in God’s eyes is just sin. There aren’t different levels of sin like we would say murder is worse than lying. Sin is just disobeying God. In that sense, Bestiality is the same as Homosexuality is the same as murder is the same as lying.

    You say as a christian “Are you making a point or a difference?” and that we should worry about making people outside the church feel better about themselves rather than doing stuff just to make a point. God’s word should never be watered down to fit the audience. It isn’t about making people want to come to you. It’s about offering what was already given and helping the people who are interested in that offer to gain a relationship with our savior. If you read the book “Not a Fan” it conveys how Jesus didn’t water down the message to the rich young ruler or the crowd who followed him wanting miracles. He told them the truth. The truth is that Homosexuality is wrong. It is a sin. Everyone needs to know where christians stand and we stand with christ, If your a christian and you believe The Bible, your opinion on it doesn’t really matter. It’s what God said.

    Now, that said, we are supposed to love everyone just as Jesus loved the Samaritan and the tax collector. We aren’t here to point fingers and call people out. Whatever we do, we should do out of love. Christians on the other hand are supposed to be accountable for one another and tell other christians when they are in the wrong. Telling someone they’ve sinned in the eye’s of God and christians is not hateful. Just like telling someone that a bridge ahead is collapsed and not to drive off the edge. They can listen if they want, but all you can do is offer a warning.

    Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to cover all I could thing of.

  49. What the Bible says about homosexuals is really the true. I know that the truth hurts and yes God called us to love the human beings but when we have to say what is true we need to say it. I am sorry about it to those people that are guy but Phil’s comment was not agaist the homosexuals but he said that what God thinks of them. God loves them BUT HE does not love what they do. May God bless you.

  50. Dwight says:

    In other words the same words which perfectly describe homosexual acts disgust you and your readers. That is what the argument is about!!! You don’t want to debate the FACTS, you want to control what is said because the ACTS CAN NOT BE DEFENDED.

  51. whoeverwrote this article is an idiot says:

    Did the person that wrote this article even take the time to read the entire article in GQ? It appears as though they did not. Take 5 mins of your time to read the article. This piece is extremely hypocritical. Got your panties in a wad and couldn’t wait to attack Phil.

  52. chip says:

    By and large, most of the commenters here just reinforce the stereotype of hardened, bigoted, mean-spirited, judgemental American Christians.

    I don’t understand the American Christian obsession with sex and the anus, and really would not want those 2 topics to be a central tenet of my spirituality as they seem to be with American Christians. Your hatred of homosexuals… ahem…uh…er..I mean….the ACT of homosexuality..is well documented in the media and in the legislatures across this country. But is that really what being a Christian is all about? hating stuff? Is that really how you want your Christ to be defined? As a leader of haters?

    To an outsider, it seems odd that American Christians spend such a huge percentage of their time, hating/attacking/demonizing /disparaging something that Jesus never spoke of. (talking about homosexuality here). Ok, we get it – couple of verses in Leviticus…even a few in the NT. But really, to listen to American Christians, you’d think that was about 98% of the Bible. why the obsession with gay?

    and the whole marriage issue. don’t get me started. we KNOW it’s not about “saving” marriage. if it was, you’d put as much energy…or heck, any energy at all…into banning divorce. But that’s not even a tiny tiny part of the “save marriage” campaigns, why? because the majority wouldn’t stand for it. Fine to deny other peoples’ rights, but even marriage-loving American Christians aren’t about to give up the safety valve of divorce. It’s one thing to stand in front of God and family and make a promise to stay together forever, but it would be quite another thing to actually be HELD to that promise. Therefore we have lawyers so that man can put asunder, what God hath brought together. Why isn’t this addressed in the “save marriage” campaigns? People see this and it makes you look dishonest., when you say “oh, we’re not against the gays…we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the gays, just hate the acts that make them gay.” Save your breath. No one outside your church bubble is falling for it.

    I guess it’s more fun to make a point, or win an argument, or poke an eye, but I think Ruthie’s style of evangelizing (not unlike that of the new pope) will win more converts to American Christianity than the usual caustic rhetoric we’ve grown accustomed to from the American Christians.

    • SL says:

      It’s amazing how someone can say so much, yet not say anything at all. So basically, stating that inserting a penis into a body cavity that is meant to dispose of human feces is vile, but the act of actually doing it is a-okay. That makes perfect sense. The only people obsessed with the anus, apparently, are you who defend it’s non-existent reproductive capability. I’ve never heard of an anus being fruitful and multiplying, how about you? And the reason we address such inherent evil as homosexuality is because we are called to:

      Love must be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good. (Romans 12:9 HCSB)

      • chip says:

        “So basically, stating that inserting a penis into a body cavity that is meant to dispose of human feces is vile, but the act of actually doing it is a-okay. That makes perfect sense. The only people obsessed with the anus, apparently, are you who defend it’s non-existent reproductive capability. I’ve never heard of an anus being fruitful and multiplying, how about you?”

        thanks for demonstrating my point. that’s an awful lot of anus-fixation on a post that is supposedly devoted to Christian spirituality. If I was shopping for a religion, some way to get in touch with my spirituality, I think I’d be looking for something more…how to say?….spiritual? maybe less focused on bodily functions, especially as concerns the lower gastrointestinal tract. But that’s just me. If your idea of “spirituality” revolves around what goes on “down there” then…well, to each his own I reckon.

        if I may move away from the anus for just a second…I’m curious about other forms of gay sex – oral sex for instance that doesn’t involve the anus. What does Christ say about that? yes? no?

      • chip says:

        and one other thing. you’ve correctly pointed out that the anus has no reproductive capacity. We agree on that. And I’ve never heard of an anus being fruitful and multiplying, so you’re 100% correct there. And like you, I’m also a little bit icked out by anal sex – it sounds dirty and painful to me, so you and I have a lot in common – lol (though it still wouldn’t be a central part of my spiritual quest). But how does it become “evil” for someone to insert their penis into the anus of another consenting adult? Why is that “evil”? I think that’s where we part ways. Gross? yes, in our shared opinions. Evil? I don’t see it.

        • SL says:

          Chip -

          Your logic is full of fallacies. I’ll do my best to address them.

          First off, your comments about context of homosexuality are asinine. Regardless of time and culture, homosexuality ALWAYS means the same thing. So regardless of popularity at whatever time in history, literally or figuratively, it’s always a sin. Period.

          Second, you assume that we “American Christians” are fixated on the anus. I’d like to remind you that this particular blog and the comments that ensued were due to comments about that very topic which ignited this controversy in the first place, not because it’s something we talk about regularly. One Christian man stated biological and biblical truths, but those of you who don’t like that sort of thing rushed out to defend it. So who’s fixated and obsessed with the anus exactly? That’s all you. And by the way, “American Christians?” What type of Christian are you? The bible has much to say about those who divide as well. It would serve you well to read the book of Romans.

          Third, “But how does it become “evil” for someone to insert their penis into the anus of another consenting adult? Why is that “evil”?” Really? You have to actually ask that question? Okay. How do we know that murder is a sin? How do we know that adultery and fornication are sins? How do we know that pedophilia and bestiality are sins? Arrogance, pride, gluttony, etc.? Because THE BIBLE SAYS SO. It’s the same way we as followers of Christ know that any sin is a sin. Not because the world, or a particular time in history, or a particular culture says so, but because the bible says so. It is for that same reason we know that homosexuality is a sin.

          Fourth, where does sin come from? All sin is inherently evil. Homosexuality is a sin, just like murder or fornication or adultery or any other sin. Sin does not come from the Father of truth, but the father of lies. The evil one. Sin IS evil. There is no way to rationalize it. The bible clearly states what is sin multiple times. And I’d like to remind you that the Father, Spirit and Son are ONE. When God said men who lay with men and men who lay with beasts in the Old Testament are to be condemned, that was Jesus speaking. He didn’t have to reiterate it in the New Testament. When He commands us to live a certain way, He only needs to say it once.

          Fifth, so when you say we disagree because we interpret the bible differently, you are incorrect. You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with the infallible word of God Himself. Feel free to take it up with Him. Perhaps you can speak to Him about your need to divide and “shop religions” while you’re at it. I’ll save you some time by saying that there is only one way to the Father, and that is through the Son.

          • chip says:

            If I may borrow a phrase from one of your earlier posts to describe your last one: “It’s amazing how someone can say so much, yet not say anything at all.”

            i’m happily not shackled to any ancient texts from seers, prophets, magicians, wise men, or pharisees all claiming to be privy to the innermost thoughts of a supreme being (assuming there is one at all). What makes you so sure that there is a god, and if so, that you’ve chosen to follow the correct one out of what? 400 or so?

            the choice to remain a slave to ancient scrolls is yours. statistically speaking, you probably haven’t chosen the right deity (approximately 1 in 400 chances), but there’s a slim chance you have. Anyway, I’ll take my chances too – I prefer to live without the fear and contradictions that plague “believers.” I can’t imagine what it must be like to live with the ever present fear that my compassionate and loving god might damn me to an ETERNITY of pain and suffering all because of the UNFORGIVABLE SIN of not believing in something that has not made it’s presence known to me. And to use the word “love” to describe the feelings you have for this entity – in my book, that’s a major redefinition of the word “love” (and I know how the homophobes HATE redefining words like marriage) that is not recognizable to me at all.

            I may be damned to an eternity of torment courtesy of your loving, compassionate jesus, but at least I will enjoy myself in this life (aka the “real” life) and at least I know what true love looks like. what you call “love” is more accurately termed “abject fear.”

            When the consequence of not “loving” god is to spend an eternity in hell, can you honestly say that what you feel towards this being is “love?” Isn’t it really just fear? Isn’t that what you really mean when you say you “love” him?

            If someone puts a gun to my head and tells me to proclaim my love for them, lest my brains end up on the floor, you can bet your bottom dollar I’m going to be loudly proclaiming my “love” (hands waving in the air and all) and devotion for said person. I will tell them that they are awesome and compassionate (hey, not killing me shows compassion right?) and that I love them with all my heart and soul. But will I be speaking the truth? Of course not. What I’m calling “love” is actually “terror.” But if I don’t at least say it, hole in the head, brains on the floor.

            Is this not the choice your compassionate, loving, supreme being has given you? (except that while the murderer inflicts only temporary pain when blowing my brains out, Jesus sends me to hell for an eternity of torment? yeah, that sounds like love to me. where can I sign up?)

            I can’t imagine the fear that you must live with on a daily basis, but I do see the consequences of that fear in your posts on this site. It seems to manifest itself as anger and judging others (always the sins of others…) If this is the construct under which you have chosen to live your life, then you have my sincere sympathy.

          • chip says:

            “How do we know that murder is a sin?” because there is a victim. a person is dead.

            “How do we know that adultery and fornication are sins?” Adultery is a sin because there is a victim. A person has been deceived and lied to. Fornication may or may not be a sin. It depends on whether there is a victim. It definitely won’t keep you from being re-elected to office by Bible-believing Christians (see David Vitter, R-La)

            How do we know that pedophilia and bestiality are sins? Because children and animals cannot give consent to have sex and are therefore victims of human sexual predators.

            However, homosexuality (assuming it doesn’t involve adultery or pedophila) in and of itself is not a sin. It has been deemed a sin (like the wearing of fabrics made of mixed fibers) by the men who wrote the Bible, but that is of no importance or consequence to me. (like the sinfulness of wearing of fabrics made from mixed fibers is of no consequence to me – or probably you either). Regardless of time and culture, fabrics made from mixed fibers ALWAYS means the same thing. So regardless of popularity at whatever time in history, literally or figuratively, wearing fabric made from mixed fibers is always a sin. Period. Except no one cares anymore – lol. If you casually disregard the inspired word of God when it comes to wearing cotton polyester blends, why should I strive to follow the rules that YOU think still apply?

            American Christians LOVE to try to draw moral equivalency between things like murder and homosexuality or pedophilia and homosexuality, but there is none at all (unless the homosexual act involves murder or pedophilia in which case THOSE are the sins, not the homosexuality).

            Comparing homosexuality to murder makes as much sense as comparing jaywalking to murder. If you see no difference between jaywalking and murder, then I’d say you’re at least consistent in your claim that homosexuality and murder are no different (though I’d say you’re maybe a bit dim). But if you are capable of understanding qualitative differences between these 2, then I’d say you’re disingenuous to try to link murder and homosexuality.

            And once again, while this narrative plays well among tobacco-chewing american christians living in southern swamplands and in church pews across the country, the majority of people are able to make the fine distinction between the two – something that seems to evade you.

          • SL says:

            Ha, there you go again. A victim is the product of a crime, Chip. You obviously think in terms of this world because you are not a believer. You don’t understand the difference between good and evil because you have no idea where either one comes from. I didn’t realize this at first because you purposfully made yourself appear to be a believer so that we would actually entertain your foolishness. You are nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing so-to-speak. You don’t understand any of this because you just don’t get it, and sadly, you probably never will because you happily choose to be a slave to sin. I choose to be a slave to Christ. So until one of those two things changes, our conversation is over.

            Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14 HCSB)

          • chip says:

            “You don’t understand the difference between good and evil because you have no idea where either one comes from.”

            the difference between good and evil is self evident. belief in a mystical, magical being is not a prerequisite for comprehending the difference between good and evil.

            if you follow the golden rule, you don’t need religion.

            as far as being a slave to Christ – it’s a free country and that is your choice to make. If it’s ok with you (and I doubt that it is since you seem preoccupied with other peoples’ lives/choices), I’ll choose freedom over any form of slavery.

            Speaking of slavery, the fact that it is not prohibited in your holy book seems like a huge omission in morality to me. How can anyone look to the Bible for moral guidance when it doesn’t do something as basic as condemning the ownership of one human by another? So you worship a god that condemns love, consumption of shellfish, and the wearing of cotton-polyester blends (ok, ok, maybe she was on to something regarding that last prohibition), but has no problem with the ownership of one person by another? That speaks volumes about you and your priorities.

          • SL says:

            Chip –

            That’s the funny part. You’re not free at all, you just think you are. Which is something else you don’t understand because at this point, you are incapable of understanding. You can’t even answer as to where good or evil comes from, or even somewhat intelligently in regards to biblical history or theology.

            The bible does not condone slavery any more than you do by wearing clothes or buying furniture made in sweat shops in China or Bangladesh. (I’d question which one is the hypocrite there). It tells us how we should live if we are under slavery or any other oppression. If you actually read it from cover to cover, you might understand the concept of living gracefully. As well as the foundation of the New Covenant which we are bound by, not the old one of the Old Testament. And God condemns love? God condemns sin and God is love. Sorry, anal sex is not love. And there are two victims in a homosexual relationship. Both forfeit their souls because they value the desires of their flesh over the approval of their God. Also something you can’t possibly understand. My priorities are with God, not with whatever is trending in pop culture right now. I care about what He thinks of me, not you or anyone else.

          • SL says:

            You’re funny, Chip. I’m not the one defending the act of inserting a penis into a bodily cavity meant to remove human waste from the body. You should seriously take up a hobby. My world revolves around the fact that God created us man and woman. He did that for a reason. Even science backs up that fact, not to mention common sense. But hey, you go ahead and be the great defender of anal sex and the love is love fallacy. I love a lot of other men, but I don’t have sex with them. Once that happens it becomes sin, and sin is evil. Pedophiles love children, murderers love murdering, rapists love raping and thieves love thieving. Love is love though, huh? Joke’s on you. We know what sin is because the bible tells us so. The fact that you apply the word “sin” to other things implies you know that, yet you discredit other aspects like homosexuality, which means you discredit your own logic. Good luck with that. It’s also funny that this blog/controversy is over the comment that “gay men prefer another man’s anus over a vagina,” which only states the obvious. Yet for some reason you people find that extremely offensive. It has been fun to watch your bigotry towards Christians on display, though. Nicely done, you’ve reached the ultimate height of hypocrisy. Speak in truth, walk in truth; especially on Christmas.

  53. chip says:

    Biblical truth – not often publicized (unpalatabe truth) but what is held in the hearts of all Bible BELIEVING Christians:

    “If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands. If a man has sexual intercourse with an animal, he must be put to death; you are also to kill the animal.”

    And this from a text that is often called “The Good Book”

    You call homosexuality twisted and perverted and at the same time you advocate KILLING people for consenting sexual acts between adults. I’m sorry, but in my book that’s just wrong. I don’t care what your Bible says about it – it’s just wrong. When you advocate killing people you are wrong, your “good book” is wrong, and your god is wrong. Maybe it’s time to take a deep, honest look inside your own soul and try to figure out what it is about YOURSELF that makes you embrace killing with such fervor. Is this what is meant by the song “Onward Christian Soldiers”?

    It’s essential to look past the smug, vacant, smiles of the radical christian right, and into their “Holy Book” (something that laughably has been described as “God’s love letter to humanity” [what love letter includes a call to murder people????]) to see their true intentions. This is why reasonable people must strive to maintain a secular socieity. One need look no further than the theocracy of Iran – where gay people actually ARE put to death for who they sleep with” to see this kind of “goodness” in action. Interesting that Christians, with all of their disdain for Muslims, are so eager to instill a similar (though Christian) theocracy here in the US, so they can get down to the serious business of “cleansing” the land of homosexuals.

    So SL, maybe I’m a little biased here, but your enthusiasm for killing people (I’m assuming from your posts that you’re a Bible-believing Christian to believes in the literal interpretation of the passage) who engage in sexual acts of which you disapprove, is really (thankfully) far, far, out of the mainstream, and honestly, an ugly and brutal part of the spiritual path you have chosen. .

    “they must be put to death.”

    If it’s ok with you, I’m going to pass on your brand of spirituality. My personal philosopy doesn’t involve killing people for whom they love, so your bloodthirsty, murderous cult does not speak to me on any level at all (thank GOD!!!)

    Merry Christmas. Hope everyone got what they wanted (except a dead fag hanging by a noose – you’ll still have to go to Iran to see that Christmas joy)

    • SL says:

      Chip-

      You’re delusional. Yeah, we’re out there killing homo’s left and right! Seriously? That is a moronic statement. 100,000 Christians are being murdered every year at the hands of Islamists, communists, dictators, etc. Where’s your phony outrage for them? I mean, they are human aren’t they? The only people killing innocent people left and right over here in America are liberals, progressives and democrats. I’d be willing to bet you’re one of those things. A kid the other day shot up a school…he was a socialist. The little freak in Newtown…a registered democrat. The Navy Yard shooter…a progressive democrat who worked on the Obama campaign. The psycho in the Colorado theater…also a democrat who worked the Obama campaign. The clown who shot Gabby Giffords in Arizona…he hated Bush and was mad at Giffords for not doing enough. Where’s your outrage for those who practice some form of a liberal ideology? According to the news, history, and FACT, people like you are the hate mongering bigots going around killing innocent people, whether it be a handful by some demented leftist kid on anti-psychosis pills, or a commie dictator in North Korea killing men and women for having a bible. But still you think it’s Christians who are twisted and perverted…good one! You can take your ignorance and demented, debauchery embracing ideology and shove it where the sun don’t shine. Because that’s the only thing that should be inside an anus next to the feces where it belongs.

      • chip says:

        difference is – these other killing machines don’t go around pretending to be the beacon of morality that all must follow. Your Bible does. And your Bible advocates the killing of homosexuals, and since you’re a Biblical literalist, then I must conclude that you agree with the “morality” of killing millions of your fellow citizens because you have a problem with what they do in private.

        and that’s what passes for “good news” among Christians? a call for the mass killings of homosexuals (sort of like what’s now going on in godly Uganda with the backing of some US christian ministers)

        and once again, on a Christian blog, during one of the holiest Christian holidays, you have demonstrated your ongoing obsession with the lower GI tract and it’s suitability or not to serve as a receptacle for a penis, or in this case, an ideology.

        Do you really think people will know you by your love SL? I don’t. Considering the human obsession with sex and all things sexual, I think readers here are going to snicker a bit while vividly remembering you as “that guy with the anus obsession.”

        • SL says:

          There you go again, more delusional nonsense. I really don’t care what you think because you’re obviously not very bright. I’d find it hard to believe if you could name 5 people who actually take you seriously. And since you didn’t take the opportunity to denounce the mass murder of Christians around the world, I think it’s quite obvious the kind of person you are. You can’t name one Christian calling for the murder of even one homosexual, let alone all of them, because there aren’t any. That’s a completely asinine assumption, but again that’s obviously the kind of person you are. And the last time I checked, those commands were for ancient Jews before the New Covenant. You’re lack of understanding of that concept shows your level of intelligence. The NT says “if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off.” How many Christians do you know with one hand? Zero. The point is to remove sin from your life, as well as the fact that it would be better to be maimed in the flesh than condemned in spirit for eternity. Another concept you obviously can’t grasp. You act as if you know everything about the bible and Christianity, yet you can’t even tell the difference between the OT and NT. You don’t make yourself look very informed. And it does no good to explain it to you because you’d rather bask in your ignorance and bigotry than take the time to educate yourself. The true mark of a fool. But hey, like everything else in life, that’s your choice. I choose the truth, regardless of how palatable it is to the world. And any day is a good day to tell the truth, especially on Christmas; it is after all why we have the Truth in the first place.

          • chip says:

            so basically, you’re telling me that when people say they believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, the fundamentalists, when they say they believe “every word of the Good Book” – they’re just lying?

            In violation of the commandment not to bear false witness?

            your bible is very confusing. certain laws for certain people, others exempt from said laws (like, oh I don’t know – pork and shrimp loving Christians always manage to craftily exclude themselves from the law). Is it fair to say that the OT applies only to homosexuals and Jews?

            If the OT doesn’t apply to Christians, then for crying out loud – why is it part of your Bible?

            That’s very convoluted and confusing. I have a hard time believing that the average person out there reading King James English will really have a nuanced understanding of the intracacies of all of these various laws. I guess that’s where televangelists and other right wing “interpreters” come in – to distill the complex language into easily understood concepts. the most important of which is: OT doesn’t apply to str8 Christians – we’re under the New Covenant. However gentle reader DO NOT discard your OT, because it comes in VERY handy when bashing homosexuals, or insisting upon the “right” to post the 10 commandments on public, government property. Otherwise, you may disregard the first half of your Bibles. Lol.

            Christianity makes about as much sense as Scientology.

          • chip says:

            SL writes of chip: “The true mark of a fool”

            God says of SL: “but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. ”

            Interesting that you hold others – especially homosexuals – to a higher Biblical standard than what you hold yourself too. and the passage that applies to you comes from the NT.

            Be careful SL or you’re liable to end up spending an eternity in hell along with all the homosexuals you so despise. Or maybe you don’t worry because, deep down, you don’t really believe everything you read in the Bible.

            Once again, literal translation required for anti-gay verses in Leviticus, everything else to be taken in context of time and culture.

        • chip says:

          “The NT says “if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off.” How many Christians do you know with one hand? Zero.”

          More evidence of the dishonesty of those christians who call themselves fundamentalists, and who claim to believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Once again we see that, the only verses to be taken literally are those condemning homosexuals. All other Bible verses MUST be interpreted in the context of time and culture.

          special rights for heteros. no wonder you like Christianity so much. the bar is MUCH lower for you than for those sinful degenerates who won’t stop doing what we so despise and obsess about.

          • SL says:

            Jesus said to not throw out the other commandments of the OT. Leviticus was written as law for ancient Jews to make them a holy example to all other nations. The OT is there for historical context, otherwise there would be no prophecy to back up the divinity of Jesus. Jesus abolished those old ways, but again, said to keep the commandments. There are ten of them. The apostle Paul, hand selected by Jesus Himself, wrote the majority of the NT, a continuation of the covenant set forth by the birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus. Nothing in the NT suggests killing homosexuals. However, in reference to homosexuality, there is no other way to take it other than literally because regardless of time or culture, it is always defined exactly the same. Jesus spoke in parables, Paul did not. Hopefully you know the difference between Jesus speaking allegorically and Paul speaking literally. So if there is something in the NT that mentions homosexuality as part of an allegory, I’d love for you to find it and point it out to me. Paul spoke of homosexuality grouped with murder, adultery and other sins. If he was speaking figuratively, that would mean that murder, adultery, theft, etc., aren’t sins either. You’ve already acknowledged that they are. Your logic is flawed and you are indeed foolish because you choose to be that way. I’m just stating the obvious and I’m perfectly comfortable in doing so. It’s really not that confusing. Millions of people understand it perfectly. Maybe you’re just easily confused.

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” – Proverbs 1:7

            If you really want to understand these things, you’ll pray to God to give you understanding. Otherwise, you never will, and you can just continue to be argumentative and willfully ignorant. Your choice. Either way, it’s no skin off my back. The same rules, standards and rights apply to you and I, hetero’s and homo’s, whether we or they like it or not. God gave us all free will. We can choose to use it righteously or unrighteously. The bible clearly states what is and isn’t righteous.

            “Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.” – 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

            FYI, that’s from the New Testament, you know, where CHRISTIANity began. And it’s not a parable or allegorical. Again, maybe you’re just easily confused.

          • chip says:

            do you have any proof that your god exists and is the almighty creator of the universe, or do you just expect people to take your word for it.

            i give christianity no more or no less credence than any of the other relgious cults out there: judiaism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, scientology, just to name a fraction of the many diverse schools of mystical thought that all have 2 things in common. 1) the absolute conviction that THEIR way is the 1 true path to enlightenment, and 2) the lack of any proof or evidence to back up their claims.

            If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. You probably rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in.

            There are thousands of Gods out there. I reject all of them. You reject all but 1. you and I are almost identical in our atheism. We’re only off by 1 god.

            why in the world are we arguing?

          • SL says:

            Yes, I do. From the trillions of cells that make up our bodies to the trillions of stars in the sky that surround our planet without harming us as it is suspended in a subzero vacuum, all the while providing air, food, minerals, water and every possible thing for our species and countless others to survive symbiotically. The proof is all around us. Something so intricate and perfect as human life, and life in general, couldn’t possibly happen by accident. I see these things as proof, not to mention the peace and grace that He grants me when I need it the most, even when I don’t deserve it. It’s something that is spiritually understood, not mentally, physically or intellectually, therefore it is beyond explanation. You either understand it and feel it in your soul, or you don’t. I don’t feel the need to research any religion because I am not religious. I understand that being a follower of Christ is about having a relationship with Him, not following a set of rules made up by men (religion). All religions are man’s attempt to reach out to God; Christianity is a result of God reaching out to mankind. That is the difference that sets Christ apart from all others. And if you want to get technical, Judaism was the precursor to Christianity. Islam in large part plagiarizes Judaism and Christianity, and was founded by a warmongering, murderous pedophile. Scientology was concocted as an experiment by a novelist. The others at best basically just worship nature, which has no power to create anything. The story and history of Jesus Christ is backed up by multiple witnesses, but regardless, it is the only story full of spiritual truths and backed up by countless ancient prophecies that have come true. I’m sorry that it doesn’t strike you that way, I wish it did. It’s truly amazing. And the only problem I have with homosexuality is that as a follower of Christ, it is a sin. It is out of love that we want all people to have eternal life by accepting Christ and rejecting sin. That is love. If I’m wrong I have nothing to lose. If you’re wrong you have everything to lose. That’s a huge difference. If you truly want to understand, just pray. Talk to God. He will give you that understanding and it will change your life. You have nothing to lose. And you’re right, arguing won’t solve anything. I’m sure we’d have some great conversation over a beer, maybe a little heated, but great nonetheless. I pray He will grant you that wisdom and understanding when you least expect it. It’s fascinating when it happens that way. Peace.

          • chip says:

            SL won the argument (props to SL for the superior debate skills). I’m now born again. I still have questions though as I struggle with some of the King James text and would like Christian guidance:

            I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her, considering this difficult economy?

            Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians? Is it still ok to own black people as long as I don’t mistreat them as commanded in the Good Book?

            I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? I’m squeamish when it comes to killing even cockroaches, so killing a human is going to be a big step, but if it’s done for Biblical reasons (like killing the witches in Salem) I guess it’s the right thing to do. Any advice on methods? Should I just put a cap in his head next time I see him heading out on Sunday.

            I have a feeling that, like Phil, I’m going to LOVE spreading the good news!

          • SL says:

            Well Chip, I’m not a Jew or a muslim, so I can’t help you there. Good luck deciphering the difference between the old and new testaments.

          • chip says:

            “Good luck deciphering the difference between the old and new testaments.”

            Too bad god didn’t pick a more straightforward, transparent way to communicate with his followers. It’s no wonder there’s so much disagreement – even among Christians (see responses to Ruthie’s blog) as to where the “truth” actually lies History, culture, language, choice of ancient texts to include in the Bible , among others – these all seem to contribute to confusion and multiple interprietations of the word.

            Maybe it’s just me, but aside from using the beloved Levitican verses to bash homosexuals, Christians seem to want to distance themselves from the OT. If it’s not part of your Bible, then why is it part of your Bible. It’s either in or out. Can’t have it both ways.

          • Steven says:

            Chip, unfortunately you used the term “born again” wrongly in your satirical comment. If you are born again you are done so through the blood of Jesus Christ, who by His sacrifice fulfilled the old law freeing us from following the letter of the Hebrew law. He established a greater commandment that encompasses the ten commandments of loving God with your whole heart and loving your neighbor AS YOURSELF. If you practice the second part, you will not mistreat other human beings with slavery, slaying them, etc. The Old Law was a prototype of the New Law. When Jesus Christ came He showed true love and admonished us to abandon following the letter of the Old Law. We were freed to live a relationship rather than a set of rules. Christ even gives an example of this through divorce. He says that in the Old Law divorce was permitted due to the hardness of man’s heart, but that HE would not have man divorce save for a very limited amount of reasons and even then the terms of remarriage are extremely limited.

            I will concede that if the Scriptures are taken as one continuous line without interpretation you are correct in saying that you should be allowed to have slaves, kill Sabbath offenders, etc. I too used to interpret the Bible as such and found it very disagreeable (who wouldn’t)! However, once certain things happened and God, in His mercy, gave me “ears to hear and eyes to see,” I realized the WHOLE story. Where I had been reading it one way, my eyes were opened to a much deeper meaning. At first, I thought this was rather unfair of a “loving God.” However, logically thinking about God, He doesn’t want us to love Him because His ways are clearly spelled out in black and white. He wants us to love Him and follow after him because we WANT to. If just simply reading the Bible without God’s grace could turn any atheist into a Christian because pure logic proved God, there is no love in that. The longer we love God and serve Him for Him, the more we understand the scriptures and His nature and the more logical it becomes that the Bible is a very confusing, hypocritical, and “evil” book in the eyes of those who are unwilling to enter into a relationship with Christ. A marriage is the same way. No one wants to be loved out of obligation, but rather because of a trust and bond that further opens the lover’s eyes to the true nature of his beloved.

            At the end of the day, Atheism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Wicca, Judaism, Hinduism, Agnosticism, and any other religion, science, or notion concerning creation comes down to faith. Just as Christians cannot concretely prove the existence of God, science can not concretely prove that there isn’t a God. Christians cannot concretely prove Creationism just as Atheists cannot concretely prove evolution. At the end of the day, it is a matter of faith. For a Christian, faith exists because obligation would supersede love if faith was not required. For an Atheist, faith exists because science has not been able to adequately prove the universe’s catalyst and subsequent chain reactions. So, Chip, really we are both men of faith.

          • SL says:

            Steven – Very well said!

            Chip – Refer to all my prior posts to you and especially what Steven said. You just keep talking in circles. Maybe someday we’ll do this over a cold one.

  54. chip says:

    Christ’s love in action – in Uganda (thanks to American evangelizing):

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/30/world/africa/uganda-lgbt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Unfortunately (for the Phil Robertson Christians), the death penalty for homosexuality has been taken off the table :-(( but the Good News is that they’re still be heavily persecuted. Sounds like Uganda is quickly becoming a Christian paradise!

  55. chip says:

    Latest news from Duck Dynasty: Christians endorse pedophilia.

    I know this is going to come as a HUGE shock to most Christians who think that pedophilia is just another term for homosexuality, but it really means having sex with children – AND that is exactly what Phil Robertson is advocating:

    Robertson: “You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16. They’ll pick your ducks.”

    I expect we’ll see a tidal wave of Christian support for Robertsons’s comments about plucking young girls for marriage.

    On the other hand, it IS Biblical, so I guess there’s really nothing to see here.

    Just another reason I’m proud to say that I’m an agnostic. Happy to be free of a religion that advocates the marrying off of your girls. But…whatever floats your boat. Not sure how encouraging sex with teenage girls glorifies Christ, but as SL has pointed out, there are a lot of things about Christianity that I just don’t get. Add this to the list.

  56. Dwight says:

    I apologize folks, I posted the 1st of the three and they refused to print it!. That DID get me upset so I posted again and they refused to print it. I then posted the 3rd because I admit getting angry. Now I come off looking like a crazy, loose cannon. Again I apologize for looking so angry. It was not part of my argument it was losing my temper. But I stand by the idea.

Trackbacks
Check out what others are saying...
  1. […] Ruthie Dean talks about the stark difference between making a point and making a difference in the l… […]



Leave A Comment